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Thread: Is Uber illegal ?

  1. #1
    Senior Member 2girls1cup's Avatar
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    Is Uber illegal ?

    I think it is illegal. Most countries require a chattel for hire to be licensed by that countries Government to operate commercially, this "ride-share thing" voilates that law.

    Documented legal proceedings below:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uber_p..._legal_actions


    Example:

    Australia[edit]

    In May 2015, the Australian Taxation Office issued a directive stating that drivers that generate income through ride-share is considered a business and advised those providing a ride-sharing service that they need to have an Australian Business Number and be registered for GST. Uber was quick to respond to ATO's directive and lodged documents to the Federal Court arguing that the public issue by the ATO "unfairly targets Uber's driver-partners".[10][11] According to a source in the ATO, Uber was not enthusiastic about negotiating the GST subject, and therefore the ATO resorted to their most undesirable option which was to classify ride-share drivers as taxi drivers. This is despite the standard applied to other small Australian businesses, in which any business grossing less than $75,000 is not required to collect and remit GST.
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    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Illegal where ?? Kind of makes a difference.

  3. #3
    Senior Member 2girls1cup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivinLOS View Post
    Illegal where ?? Kind of makes a difference.
    Any Sovereign nation that requires a chattel for hire to have a license to qualify.
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    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Is giving your mate, or a mates mate, or the bloke from work.. A lift for petrol money meeting your standard.

    Also.. Finding chattel strange in that definition. Isnt chattel anything (property) ?? So Chattel for hire simply means 'physical thing owned by someone for hire' which I dont think is the problem.. Ubers problem is providing services rather than chattel isnt it ??

  5. #5
    Senior Member 2girls1cup's Avatar
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    Chattel for hire simply means 'physical thing owned by someone for hire'
    Using that asset terminology covers the full spectrum.


    I think the legal definition will be if it was deemed to be a commercial business in a reasonableness test.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2girls1cup View Post
    I think it is illegal. Most countries require a chattel for hire to be licensed by that countries Government to operate commercially, this "ride-share thing" voilates that law.
    I agree, it violates the law in countries that does have regulations for taxi services, that is, if the Uber driver does not have the required licence and follow the regulations (insurance, perhaps a special license for the car etc.).

    Getting a ride from a friend is certainly not the same as ordering a stranger to drive through an app.

  7. #7
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatdane View Post
    I agree, it violates the law in countries that does have regulations for taxi services, that is, if the Uber driver does not have the required licence and follow the regulations (insurance, perhaps a special license for the car etc.).

    Getting a ride from a friend is certainly not the same as ordering a stranger to drive through an app.
    Key here for me would be insurance.. Cab licensing worldwide is often used as a scam to collect fees, create a false scarcity to licensing and provide profits for city departments, rather than doing anything for customer safety etc.

    Insurance is where thats impacting private deals between parties, making a deal with an insurer as a civilian with civilian expectations of use, and then using that in a professional setting, is unfair.

  8. #8
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Ohh just a funny.. So I go into a bar in Hua Hin with my windup jock mate, in in there at the bar was this loud brash cockey.. He was a full on black cab driver and had 'done tha knowledge' etc.. Being all typical xenophobic racist any immigrant brash accent etc.. Talking like a caricature wido.. Bosh bosh zum zum dosh.. Loadsamoney..

    So once I hear hes a taxi driver I start on to fin how wonderful it was Uber was coming to thailand.. How uber was going to revolutionize taxi transport.. This guy gets his back up.. Instantly jumping to defence "no app is going to know the backstreets like" er but of course it is, its a map, it finds it and the route instantly.. "yeah but no app is going to know the traffic" well yeah it does, because the apps are measuring back the average speeds of other drivers and automatically routes the best way... This guy is having a full on fit.. Bright red, spitting feathers, spluttering.. This went on for ages.. I remember going on about how wonderful it was that Abdul could get off the boat, and instantly have a tool that enabled him outperform the transport options without training or time, what a great equal opportunity thing this was, democratizing labour, keeping consumer costs down, removing barriers of entry to people to earn and pay taxes... etc etc.. I tell you, I honestly think he was going to have a stroke.

    Couple of nights later we came back in the same bar, and as soon as we walked in he checked bin !!
    Last edited by LivinLOS; 2nd November 2016 at 13:22.

  9. #9
    Senior Member 2girls1cup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivinLOS View Post
    Key here for me would be insurance.. Cab licensing worldwide is often used as a scam to collect fees, create a false scarcity to licensing and provide profits for city departments, rather than doing anything for customer safety etc.

    Insurance is where thats impacting private deals between parties, making a deal with an insurer as a civilian with civilian expectations of use, and then using that in a professional setting, is unfair.
    That is ridiculous.

    Look at the extreme example of London cabs what they have to go through to be licensed?
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    Senior Member MrDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2girls1cup View Post
    Any Sovereign nation that requires a chattel for hire to have a license to qualify.
    I seriously doubt the USofA as a sovereign nation would have any such laws.
    A state might, but so far only one has and add a few cities to that list.

  11. #11
    Senior Member 2girls1cup's Avatar
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    Lets say I buy DC10 plane from British Airways.

    I have a pilots license to fly it.

    I get insurance to carry people.

    Can I uber people and take them from a private airport on the DC10 to another private airport and they pay me?
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  12. #12
    Senior Member 2girls1cup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrDK View Post
    I seriously doubt the USofA as a sovereign nation would have any such laws.
    A state might, but so far only one has and add a few cities to that list.
    You are joking right?


    Taxicab Medallion Systems: Time for a Change



    In most major American cities, the taxi industry is heavily regulated. City officials treat taxi companies effectively as public utilities, tightly controlling every aspect of their operations, from the licensing of drivers to the fares they may charge. Many cities, including New York, Boston, and Chicago, operate so-called medallion systems whereby cities set a maximum cap on the number of cabs that can operate in the city.
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  13. #13
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2girls1cup View Post
    Look at the extreme example of London cabs what they have to go through to be licensed?
    See above

  14. #14
    Senior Member 2girls1cup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivinLOS View Post
    See above
    Still dont understand?
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  15. #15
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2girls1cup View Post
    You are joking right?


    Taxicab Medallion Systems: Time for a Change



    In most major American cities, the taxi industry is heavily regulated. City officials treat taxi companies effectively as public utilities, tightly controlling every aspect of their operations, from the licensing of drivers to the fares they may charge. Many cities, including New York, Boston, and Chicago, operate so-called medallion systems whereby cities set a maximum cap on the number of cabs that can operate in the city.

    Its precisely this false scarcity and creation of a market for medallions which I was addressing..

    Personally I believe in a free market.. If someone wants a limo, pay for it.. If someone wants a regulated black cab pay for it.. If someone wants abdul in a 20 year old toyota corolla for 15 quid at 4am.. OK pay for it..

  16. #16
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2girls1cup View Post
    Still dont understand?
    Its not a visa !!!!

  17. #17
    Senior Member 2girls1cup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivinLOS View Post
    Its precisely this false scarcity and creation of a market for medallions which I was addressing..

    Personally I believe in a free market.. If someone wants a limo, pay for it.. If someone wants a regulated black cab pay for it.. If someone wants abdul in a 20 year old toyota corolla for 15 quid at 4am.. OK pay for it..


    Sure free markets in general without monopolies help keep prices fair.

    The problem you have here is that there is significant liability so this service/ business requires licensing/ regulation (DC10 above as an extreme example).
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  18. #18
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2girls1cup View Post
    Lets say I buy DC10 plane from British Airways.

    I have a pilots license to fly it.

    I get insurance to carry people.

    Can I uber people and take them from a private airport on the DC10 to another private airport and they pay me?
    Why not ?? Your asking this aware it exists right ?? Or are you not being sarcastic but really dont know ??

    https://www.skyuber.com/

  19. #19
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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  20. #20
    Senior Member 2girls1cup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivinLOS View Post
    Why not ?? Your asking this aware it exists right ?? Or are you not being sarcastic but really dont know ??

    https://www.skyuber.com/

    I didn't check if it exists actually.


    But that is crazy to be allowed by regulators.
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