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Thread: Post Capitalism?

  1. #1
    K2
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    Post Capitalism?

    A long but very interesting piece about how the world could transform itself ...

    The end of capitalism has begun | Books | The Guardian

    Perhaps we're already beginning to change ...

    http://time.com/3938210/dutch-basic-income/
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Waharoa's Avatar
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    Fascinating read Kev... ties in nicely with Lil's AI Immortality thread...

    And that Marx predicted it is even more intriguing...

    Once you understand that information is physical, and that software is a machine, and that storage, bandwidth and processing power are collapsing in price at exponential rates, the value of Marx’s thinking becomes clear. We are surrounded by machines that cost nothing and could, if we wanted them to, last forever.

    In these musings, not published until the mid-20th century, Marx imagined information coming to be stored and shared in something called a “general intellect” – which was the mind of everybody on Earth connected by social knowledge, in which every upgrade benefits everybody. In short, he had imagined something close to the information economy in which we live. And, he wrote, its existence would “blow capitalism sky high”.
    ...and this is why surely we will be a planet without borders eventually... the power of the virtual market?

    By creating millions of networked people, financially exploited but with the whole of human intelligence one thumb-swipe away, info-capitalism has created a new agent of change in history: the educated and connected human being.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Thin White Duke's Avatar
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    Ya except billions and billions don't even have access to fresh water. .....let alone Internet connections.

    Reckon you are only thinking from the 1st world perspective. ....a small fraction of the actual population.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Waharoa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thin White Duke View Post
    Ya except billions and billions don't even have access to fresh water. .....let alone Internet connections.

    Reckon you are only thinking from the 1st world perspective. ....a small fraction of the actual population.
    Me... or the author?

    You only need enough to cover those with money to spend though...

    Everyone on Earth to have internet access by 2025...

  5. #5
    Senior Member sundancekid's Avatar
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    Excellent read, I thought. I've just skimmed it, but where to start? Plenty of interesting points and angles, but then some dead-ends as well.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Thin White Duke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waharoa View Post
    Me... or the author?

    You only need enough to cover those with money to spend though...

    Everyone on Earth to have internet access by 2025...
    Nick I also just skimmed that but remain sceptical.

    Jesus wept you should come and see some of the people here in SA and the state they live.....and we are the most advanced in Africa.

    Forget places like Bangladesh....India....South East Asia....South America. ...rural China.

    Just pie in the sky imo

  7. #7
    Senior Member Thin White Duke's Avatar
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    They can't even hold a pen let alone log onto the net

  8. #8
    Senior Member Waharoa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thin White Duke View Post
    Nick I also just skimmed that but remain sceptical.

    Jesus wept you should come and see some of the people here in SA and the state they live.....and we are the most advanced in Africa.

    Forget places like Bangladesh....India....South East Asia....South America. ...rural China.

    Just pie in the sky imo
    I know this may sound harsh.... but they are almost irrelevant to the topic. This is about where the money is.... not where it isn't...

    This will happen (and is already happening) whether they are included or not...

    3 billion people already connected... it's already more than they need...

    The social networking part is just a sideshow... its about what companies like Google can do with the information they gain by watching us...
    Last edited by Waharoa; 19th July 2015 at 21:15.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Thin White Duke's Avatar
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    Ok I understand that viewpoint

  10. #10
    Senior Member Thin White Duke's Avatar
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    But that was not your link to Marx where everyone benefited.

    So quite contrary actually

  11. #11
    Senior Member Waharoa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thin White Duke View Post
    But that was not your link to Marx where everyone benefited.

    So quite contrary actually
    It is sort of contrary... you are right. I added that half way through reading the article. That Marx could appreciate a time so far in the future where we would all be connected somehow is quite staggering really... maybe what he didn't see (or maybe he would have had he understood the internet) is that despite that connection making us all more cognisant... we are still being manipulated by those with even more information about us and our behaviour...

    So that's part of the debate really... will post-capitalism just see us all benefiting in a standard of living sort of way... but losing our freedom because the very information that we think empowers us... is controlled by someone else? Giant all-seeing corporations...

    Or is there still room for individuals and the SMEs of the world to flourish?
    Last edited by Waharoa; 19th July 2015 at 23:49.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Thin White Duke's Avatar
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    Well I think the rich will keep getting richer and the poorer poorer.

    The more things change the more they stay the same type of vibe

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