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Thread: Four Horsemen.. Docu

  1. #1
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Four Horsemen.. Docu

    Got an hour and a half this Sunday ???

    Superb docu.. Well worth your time.

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  2. #2
    Yes
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    Just watched this ...I thought it was excellent,very well presented,

    Thanks for posting it

  3. #3
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Yeah I thought it was superb.. would have liked them to cover the terrorism resources and education aspects with the same detail as the economic stuff.

    But very well done imo

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    K2
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    Excellent and non-sensationalist - bring down The Age of Plutocracy!
    Its My Life .....!

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    Senior Member sundancekid's Avatar
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    Liked that one quite a bit actually.

    I get a bit wary a times when the gold standard and abolishing the income tax is on the table, but the economic bit covered most of the important issues fairly accurately.

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    ^ Holy Crap - SDK agreeing (to a significant extent) with LiL on economics - there is hope indeed for the world's economic future!!
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    Its My Life .....!

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    Senior Member sundancekid's Avatar
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    Just wait till I start mentioning Keen's debt jubilee instead of austerity 555.

    (Not that I am necessarily in favor of that policy prescription per se, but the $40 trillion or so private debt out there represents a much larger problem than QE and govt. spending.)

    Incidentally, found this discussion between the Four Horseman creator (Ashcroft) and Steve Keen.



    Last edited by sundancekid; 4th November 2013 at 02:06.
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    Senior Member Waharoa's Avatar
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    It was even simple enough for me to understand. So it must be a masterpiece... 555

    Just needs to be merged with those "Power of Nightmares" documentaries from ten years ago...

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    Senior Member Waharoa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ub2yoo View Post
    That was a great documentary indeed ... not sure now whether I should be less happy or more depressed now?

    hey... that thread you started about fearing the future Earth is not a good place for kids... now you have reinforcement for those fears!

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    Senior Member Waharoa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ub2yoo View Post
    Absolutely, and I'm not going to have any more children, that's for sure!

    It's shocking, the rip-off society we live in and what we have to swallow from people/corporate/banks/gov for their profits and greed.

    Yet, we are having discussions on here how much better it is to bring kids to this West rather than leaving them poor, but happy, in their rural villages ;-)
    When you know yourself what's right... just best keep it to yourself... just like those with the power. As the video said at the end... walk around with your eyes open... and tell your kids. Maybe education will eventually change what seems inevitable?

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    Senior Member Waharoa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ub2yoo View Post
    Maybe you are right with the education, but I can see the truth in the Mark Twain quote: I've never let my school interfere with my education.

    There were actually a few good quotes in that vid ... the one from M. Gandhi is just so true ... we would have it all, if it not only would fail at the greed of the people. It's a must have sig now ;-)
    Yeah I like that Ghandhi quote too...

    That Mark Twain quote actually supports what I said. He said don't let schooling interfere with education.... ie. education can occur anywhere... and you/we can educate our kids to initiate change...

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    Member BushDoctor's Avatar
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    I especially like the film at around the 1:30.30 mark. He says the essence of American democracy is repeated confrontation, a repeated showdown. In the past much was taken out of the system by those who contributed very little. People rose up to halt the violent practices. It can be done again.

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    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ub2yoo View Post
    It's shocking, the rip-off society we live in and what we have to swallow from people/corporate/banks/gov for their profits and greed.
    Is it the very nature of man tho ?? Is it built into the Darwinian strive to get ahead of your peers that builds this very failure into us ??

    I often ponder this.. I think it was Old Sid Arthur who said that "desire is the root of all suffering" and I often think thats right on the money.. Eg I have a perfectly good car, it starts, it never lets me down, its comfy, its fast enough, theres nothing wrong with it at all.. but I spend a large proportion of my mental energy thinking about ways to smuggle a flash BMW in, to upgrade it for another car that would do exactly the same thing.. I have 4 motorbikes, yet I put myself through mental loops over should I go get a new ducati or KTM.. You could say the same with camera gear, or loads of things in life.

    The desire for more actually stops me enjoying what I have. Even being conscious of that, even trying to mentally be aware of it, control it, and be grateful for the amazing luxuries I do have, its there in your (or my anyway) head.

    Is this consumption thing built in, is it media driven (I do find with camera gear yes theres a whole industry built around telling you to get the new gadgets) is it a stage of life deal ??
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    ^^^^
    Stage of life IMHO - been there, done that.
    Now all that stuff (and it is just stuff) doesn't matter, isn't necessary.

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    1 Timothy 6:10

    For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.

  16. #16
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    I agree for sure that spending your own income on something for yourself is not a greedy / sinful thing..

    But the need for consumption, the need to try to constantly achieve more than the next person.. How we rank ourselves these ways and perceive ourselves (its been shown many times that people are much happier being successful in a poor place, than being poor in a successful place.. Despite the latter having a much higher living standard).

    Its like its built in to over consume, to always desire more, to over use resources, etc etc etc..

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    Quote Originally Posted by LivinLOS View Post
    Is it the very nature of man tho ?? Is it built into the Darwinian strive to get ahead of your peers that builds this very failure into us ??

    I often ponder this.. I think it was Old Sid Arthur who said that "desire is the root of all suffering" and I often think thats right on the money.. Eg I have a perfectly good car, it starts, it never lets me down, its comfy, its fast enough, theres nothing wrong with it at all.. but I spend a large proportion of my mental energy thinking about ways to smuggle a flash BMW in, to upgrade it for another car that would do exactly the same thing.. I have 4 motorbikes, yet I put myself through mental loops over should I go get a new ducati or KTM.. You could say the same with camera gear, or loads of things in life.

    The desire for more actually stops me enjoying what I have. Even being conscious of that, even trying to mentally be aware of it, control it, and be grateful for the amazing luxuries I do have, its there in your (or my anyway) head.

    Is this consumption thing built in, is it media driven (I do find with camera gear yes theres a whole industry built around telling you to get the new gadgets) is it a stage of life deal ??
    For you it seems it is. For me. No. I just bought my first flat screen....55

    I still own the only motorcycle I bought 12 years ago. And that goes for many of my possessions like stereos and suitcases...55

    It takes up a lot of energy to be continuously in consumer mode. Maybe it's a high. Like a gambling addiction. I know a guy who for the past 30 years has bought and sold vehicles and houses enough for 10 people.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Waharoa's Avatar
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    Scarce resources... are coming home to roost... that's about all we need to know...

  19. #19
    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ub2yoo View Post
    Wow, that was exactly my point all along the way in the "What if money doesn't matter" thread ... on topic of moving kids out of LOS


    But life is about optimizing opportunities, feeling (=happines) has nothing to do with it.

    (Sorry Brian, but I will never forget this statement, it's just hammered into my brain now ;-)
    but it is easy enough to not make any of that matter
    i had this debate on TD and people bitching about the west being so materialistic and pressured to keep up
    you don't have to have any of those things matter to you and although a bit harder, you can raise your kids in the same manner

    sure i like a few nice luxuries but on a whole, nothing that my friends or family have make me envious or want to have them
    my co-workers live in 3-4-5million dollar houses. some of them are beautiful but their houses don't effect my life(except i wish i bought a 1st house in Van when they did!)

    I agreed with your 1st statement that the world has lost it's way a bit, a lot actually
    but i will just never agree why people feel pressured from the outside when it is so easy to live on your own terms

  20. #20
    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ub2yoo View Post
    I actually didn't want to bring up the complete debate again ;-) but Lil's comment just reminded me too much on it.

    When it comes to living on your own terms, I think we (my family) are doing a pretty good job. Throughout the years we worked on our goals and have our finances under control.

    When time comes to leave Dubai, we have created assets and increased our wealth ... where on the other hand, I've seen too many people getting sucked into
    'the good and luxury life' and head back home completely broke ... it's too easy here to get blinded and carried away with fancy cars and stuff like that.
    and it isn't in Thailand?
    how many people you see living above their means?
    buying cars they can't afford
    look at the figures of the car incentive push
    spend a good amount of time in that village that is so great in Thailand and you will soon realize how much money factors into their life because it surely does, it not in any idealic way people fantasize about

    why does it matter what other people do?
    you afraid your children will fall for that?
    i've seen plenty of kids in my family and of friends raised correctly not to fall into it
    like i said, it is work to do that with your kids but i see plenty people do it correctly

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