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Thread: Russian fighter shot down by Turkey

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    Senior Member NeedHoliday's Avatar
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    Russian fighter shot down by Turkey

    Some of you probably aware but in case anyone missed it there's some good coverage on the BBC site.

    Warplane shot down at Syria border with Turkey - BBC News

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    Hmmm...not good. I fear shit may be about to get real...

    Or they could just pass it off as a Turkey shoot....
    Last edited by Homer; 24th November 2015 at 18:11.

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    well given that it's Thanksgiving this week...it's all beginning to make sense now

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    Senior Member NeedHoliday's Avatar
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    Turkey saying it was inside their borders, Russia denying and saying it was Syria etc etc.

    If Turkish data is reliable, looks like it could have been inside.


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    Nuke it until the flesh falls off the bones. And there you have it.


    A Russian Christmas Turkey.
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    Senior Member soupdragon's Avatar
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    It's reported that the plane was flying at supersonic speeds and is alleged to have been in Turkeys airspace for 17 seconds. By the time the missile hit the plane it was already clear of Turkeys airspace.

    You have to ask if Turkey had prior permission from NATO to take such action and is it justified.
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    More shit to come soon

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    Found this on FB by Dr Prof (MD) Marc Van Ranst:

    I could not sleep yesterday evening, so I did a little research:
    Why is Erdogan firing at Russian planes ? Maybe because Russia is hurting the family business ?

    ISIS needs money to pay their 30.000 soldiers. It generates money by taking control of oil fields (in the Deir Ezzor province in eastern Syria (30.000 barrels per day), and in Qayyara near Mosul in northern Iraq (8.000 barrels per day)) and selling this oil on the black market.

    Turkey is the main transit point for ISIS oil deliveries. Bilal Erdogan (born in 1980), the son of Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdogan, might be one of the men who arranges the (illegal) export of the ISIS-controlled oil, essentially whitewashing the oil and selling it at a discount to willing customers around the world.

    Bilal Erdogan is one of the three directors of the Erdogan-family-owned BMZ Group shipping company. This company spent a fortune in 2015 in suddenly purchasing five identical modern oil tankers (140 meter long, 4.684 tonnage, 8.089 cubic meter cargo tank capacity), all built at the Turkter shipyard in Istanbul. Bilal Erdogan is operating these ships under the Maltese flag, not under the Turkish flag (because Malta is an EU member and vessels flying the Maltese flag are deemed to be EU-vessels, and because the Maltese flag has been upgraded to the White list on the Paris MoU, making unnecessary controls less likely on ships flying the Maltese flag). The "Mecid Aslanov" (call sign 9HA3873) was delivered on February 21, 2015. The "Begim Aslanova" (call sign 9HA3926) was delivered on May 18, 2015. The "Poet Qabil" (call sign 9HA3979) was delivered on July 1, 2015. The "Armada Breeze, also known as the Turkter 81" (call sign 9HA4108) was delivered on November 6, 2015. The "Armada Fair, also known as the Turkter 82" was launched on September 14, 2015, but is (probably) not delivered yet.

    On Marinetraffic.com you can easily find the position and routing of 70.000 vessels: Here is where they are today (november 25, 2015):
    - The "Mecid Aslanov" is sailing between Haifa (Israel, left port on November 18, 2015) and Nikolaev (Ukrain, expected time of arrival: November 25, 2015). It is interesting to note that a company owned by the son of the Turkish president is ferrying oil to/from Haifa, Israel and Ukrain !
    - The "Begim Aslanova" is sailing between Nikolaev (Ukrain, left port on November 20, 2015) and Savona (Italy, ETA november 30, 2015).
    - The "Poet Qabil" is sailing between Illichivsk (Ukrain, left port on November 11, 2015) and Rotterdam (Netherlands, ETA November 29, 2015).
    - The "Armada Breeze" is sailing between Reni (Ukrain, left port on November 13, 2015) and Bilbao (Spain, ETA November 28 2015).

    Everything went fine for the Erdogan business venture until september 30, 2015, when Russia started supporting the Syrian government with bombing raids. Until then, the US and its allies had taken extraordinary care for over a year not to strike a single tanker truck that ferried the crude oil from Syria and Iraq, because the Pentagon "did not feel right vaporizing civilians", and probably more so to keep ISIS in the game to increase the chances of destabilizing the Assad regime.

    In the second half of november 2015, the Russians started targeting oil trucks, torching 1000 oil tankers in a five day period. The US, feeling the Russian pressure because they exposed their previous ineffectiveness, also bombed 283 oil trucks on november 21, 2015.

    For the first time, the predominantly Russian bombing raids are now starting to destabilize the steady ISIS oil supply to its presumed Turkish middlemen, and in this way maybe jeopardizing the profits of Bilal Erdogan's BMZ shipping company. And this probably angered his father... It's just business, nothing personal...

    References:
    MECID ASLANOV - Oil Products Tanker: current position and details | IMO 9711248, MMSI 256280000, Callsign 9HA3873 | Registered in Malta - AIS Marine Traffic
    Syria oil map: the journey of a barrel of Isis oil
    BMZ Snaps Up Tanker Pair | World Maritime News
    Oil tankers info
    Bilal Erdo?an?s firm buys 4th tanker for $18 million
    "Get Out Of Your Trucks And Run Away": US Gives ISIS 45 Minute Warning On Oil Tanker Strikes | Zero Hedge
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    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Russia bombs the isis tanker supply line to (our friend and NATO member) Turkey.. Turkey (who have been supporting ISIS clearly) shots a russian fighter down in syria for 17 seconds airspace violation ??

    Of course, thats just tin foil.. And no bankers are involved..
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    K2
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    Can't be that difficult to wipe out the oil production rigs/facilities under ISIS control - if I was Putin, I'd start bombing the crap out of all ISIS infrastructure, can't be hard to send them back to the Stone Age, after all should fit with the Dark Age ideology these cvnts are following. The West all too easily jumps on the anti-Russia bandwagon - remember it's Russia who defeated the Nazi's (to a massive extent) - I'd rather have Russia in the EU/NATO than Turkey.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivinLOS View Post
    Of course, thats just tin foil.. And no bankers are involved..
    Of course not, do you think they'd be sloppy enough to leave an obvious connection.
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    Senior Member soupdragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K2 View Post
    Can't be that difficult to wipe out the oil production rigs/facilities under ISIS control - if I was Putin,.
    You can't destroy the production capability that the non radicalized population rely on without risking radicalizing them. The only way is to prevent the oil getting onto the black market by taking out the transports which is what Putin is doing.

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    Ahh yes, it goes something like this:

    "You know I was totally going to start decapitating Yazidis, but I see you have bombed only the transports, well done then!"

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    Senior Member soupdragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuhio View Post
    Ahh yes, it goes something like this:

    "You know I was totally going to start decapitating Yazidis, but I see you have bombed only the transports, well done then!"
    The Yazidis were considered infidels and would have been executed whatever the strategy. Taking out the rigs would have added a risk of radicalizing many others.

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    Senior Member faultytowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivinLOS View Post
    Russia bombs the isis tanker supply line to (our friend and NATO member) Turkey.. Turkey (who have been supporting ISIS clearly) shots a russian fighter down in syria for 17 seconds airspace violation ??

    Of course, thats just tin foil.. And no bankers are involved..
    Two interesting articles on BBC .

    But Mr Putin insisted it was "impossible" for Turkey not to have known it was shooting at a Russian plane. "It's got insignia, and you can see that very clearly".
    He went on: "In advance, in accordance with our agreement with the US, we gave information on where our planes would be working - at what altitude, and in what areas. Turkey is part of that coalition and they had to know it was the Russian airforce working in that area.


    "If it was an American aircraft, would they have struck?"
    Putin: Turkey 'knew downed fighter jet was Russian' - BBC News

    Two prominent Turkish journalists have been charged with espionage after alleging that Turkey's secret services sent arms to Islamist rebels in Syria.

    The journalists, who deny the allegations against them, reported that trucks belonging to the Turkish intelligence agency MIT were used to carry weapons to Islamist opposition groups in Syria.

    Video footage published alongside their report purported to show Turkish police officers intercepting the trucks and discovering crates containing weapons and ammunition.
    Turkish journalists charged with spying over weapons report - BBC News

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    K2
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    Quote Originally Posted by soupdragon View Post
    You can't destroy the production capability that the non radicalized population rely on without risking radicalizing them. The only way is to prevent the oil getting onto the black market by taking out the transports which is what Putin is doing.
    That doesn't make sense - Kuhio has rightly quipped, who gives a fvck about radicalising the non-ISIS locals, if ISIS has no income, no-one will follow them - it's precisely because ISIS is cash rich from flogging oil via Turkey that they have the means to radicalise in the first place - destroy all means of economic production and you'll soon see a very compliant populous incapable of anything!!
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    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    You think Turkey was doing that and no one knew ?? They had the green light.. Because we have been using / Creating / Funding / Training ISIS all along..

    As soon as Russia comes along and starts to actually hurt them, we play the spin game and say hes the bad man.. ISIS is our tool.
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    Quote Originally Posted by K2 View Post
    That doesn't make sense - Kuhio has rightly quipped, who gives a fvck about radicalising the non-ISIS locals, if ISIS has no income, no-one will follow them - it's precisely because ISIS is cash rich from flogging oil via Turkey that they have the means to radicalise in the first place - destroy all means of economic production and you'll soon see a very compliant populous incapable of anything!!
    That doesn't make sense.

    First thing, ISIS doesn't simply have the money, they aslo have the guns. Do you honestly think everyone fighting for ISIS is a volunteer... or even most of them?

    The only ones actually loyal to ISIS are the lieutenants. Everyone else is a conscript, when ISIS rolls into a town, they round up a number of young men capable of fighting and threaten to shoot them and their families if they dont pile into a truck off to a training camp. The conscripts fight, the lieutenants keep their guns trained on the conscripts, soviet style. Because of this, it doesn't matter how broke they are. They can still raise an army through force alone.

    Also this is why the refugee situation in Syria is as bad as it is. Everyone wants to get out of dodge before they get drafted or shot.

    Bombing the infrastructure is a terrible idea because it wont just radicalise the CURRENT generation, it will radicalise the NEXT generation as well. I thought people would have learned this by now. Just like the US and UK fucking around with the Iranian government in the 50's lead to the Islamic revolution 30 years later, destroying the oil derricks now will just lead to the kids of today growing up to hate the west (with good reason).

    Finally, Oil is not their sole source of funding. They will have other sources (drugs, the house of Saud).
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    So they are desperately running away from murderous few who trying to kill them, and will be generationally pissed at us for actually defeating those who are trying to kill them. Hmmm, I wonder what other force may be at play in that Orwellian equation.

    You're post reads like Noam Chomsky's smegma that you have to wipe away from your forehead after you chortle his balls.

    A little strong? Sorry, there is no dislike button.
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