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  1. #41
    Senior Member Pablo's Avatar
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    I feel very strongly about it, both ways! 555

    I'm still trying to wrap my head around WHY it is UAL's liability in this case? They operated within their lawful rights, to ask the guy to deplane. When he refused and became belligerent, it then became a matter of policing action.

    These cops weren't there as employees of UAL, but rather the airport or city of Chicago. And although the methods they used were kind of bad, they were acting lawfully as per the request from UAL personnel.

    Why didn't the mutt just obey the police commands and deplane, then take up his "rights" afterward? It's become fashionable these days to disregard and disrespect all of the law enforcement branches...and we can thank the last eight years of hussein and eric holder, along with their allies "black lives matter" et. al, for this IMO! Yeah, lawlessness and anarchy is good according to barack's hero, "saul alinsky"!

    Another example here in my town, just today. Some people were demonstrating in front of Trump's hotel, demanding him to release his tax returns etc., as this is "Tax Day".

    OK, so some photojournalist (who is employed by a local TV News station) sets up his camera across the street from the Hotel and demonstrators. He's on the sidewalk of a shopping mall that is private property. The mall security asked him to move off of the mall property to another public corner, and he declined. The mall security then calls on the police to have him removed from their private property. The journalist refuses and becomes belligerent with the police and subsequently is arrested! BIG NEWS now!

    Couldn't both of these cases been handled much more easily, if the subjects had just followed the (security guys) and cop's lawful requests in the first place? And then, like I said...take the matter of their "rights" up afterward?

    I mean, you either have respect for laws or you don't! And when you don't , it always ends up badly!
    Last edited by Pablo; 17th April 2017 at 12:51.
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  2. #42
    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo View Post
    I feel very strongly about it, both ways! 555

    I'm still trying to wrap my head around WHY it is UAL's liability in this case? They operated within their lawful rights, to ask the guy to deplane. When he refused and became belligerent, it then became a matter of policing action.

    These cops weren't there as employees of UAL, but rather the airport or city of Chicago. And although the methods they used were kind of bad, they were acting lawfully as per the request from UAL personnel.

    Why didn't the mutt just obey the police commands and deplane, then take up his "rights" afterward? It's become fashionable these days to disregard and disrespect all of the law enforcement branches...and we can thank the last eight years of hussein and eric holder, along with their allies "black lives matter" et. al, for this IMO! Yeah, lawlessness and anarchy is good according to barack's hero, "saul alinsky"!

    Another example here in my town, just today. Some people were demonstrating in front of Trump's hotel, demanding him to release his tax returns etc., as this is "Tax Day".

    OK, so some photojournalist (who is employed by a local TV News station) sets up his camera across the street from the Hotel and demonstrators. He's on the sidewalk of a shopping mall that is private property. The mall security asked him to move off of the mall property to another public corner, and he declined. The mall security then calls on the police to have him removed from their private property. The journalist refuses and becomes belligerent with the police and subsequently is arrested! BIG NEWS now!

    Couldn't both of these cases been handled much more easily, if the subjects had just followed the (security guys) and cop's lawful requests in the first place? And then, like I said...take the matter of their "rights" up afterward?

    I mean, you either have respect for laws or you don't! And when you don't , it always ends up badly!
    I'm a huge "just shut your mouth around cops because it won't make anything better" guy
    Every time I got arrested I just shut my mouth......no use in arguing with them

    But I would have been arguing my ass off if I was getting booted out of my seat

  3. #43
    Senior Member MrDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc26 View Post
    The use of the word "criminal" wasn't literal

    Just meaning they were being shady

    I think this guy is getting a hell of a lot more than 1mil
    Regardless of "criminal" you are WRONG in you interpretation of $1,350 being the limit of what can be offered, admit it!
    15 years ago I was offered $1,600 on Delta, plus hotel, plus meals and Business class upgrade the next day.
    Unfortunately I had some 20 people attending my seminar at the destination, so I had to fly.
    Last edited by MrDK; 17th April 2017 at 14:12.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrDK View Post
    Regardless of "criminal" you are WRONG in you interpretation of $1,350 being the limit of what can be offered, admit it!
    15 years ago I was offered $1,600 on Delta, plus hotel, plus meals and Business class upgrade the next day.
    Unfortunately I had some 20 people attending my seminar at the destination, so I had to fly.
    So what you say is that if you had been choosen you would be the one kicking and screaming .....

    Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk

  5. #45
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    So you have a guy refusing a lawful request to leave a plane. He arcs up and says "Why me?" "I'm not leaving...".
    Cut to a scene where the pilot, co-pilot, and cabin staff begin to file off the plane. An announcement is made that the flight has been delayed for one hour and would everyone please leave the plane. If the complainant remains, it will be a much simpler matter to deal with him, that's if he can stand the wrath of the other 100 or so people he's just delayed.
    Get everyone on your side, then re-admit the passengers you really want on that plane.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Pablo's Avatar
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    ^^^^^ I was going to suggest the same thing.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Changone View Post
    So you have a guy refusing a lawful request to leave a plane. He arcs up and says "Why me?" "I'm not leaving...".
    Cut to a scene where the pilot, co-pilot, and cabin staff begin to file off the plane. An announcement is made that the flight has been delayed for one hour and would everyone please leave the plane. If the complainant remains, it will be a much simpler matter to deal with him, that's if he can stand the wrath of the other 100 or so people he's just delayed.
    Get everyone on your side, then re-admit the passengers you really want on that plane.
    Is it a lawfull request to order somebody to leave the plane? Or does the law says you have to refuse him before boarding? I guess there is a difference between both.
    I think Pablo's experience with the guy arriving late at the gate (less than 20 minutes) and refused entrance is different from this case. Here the guy was on time and sitting in an airplane seat.
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  8. #48
    Senior Member Waharoa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Changone View Post
    So you have a guy refusing a lawful request to leave a plane. He arcs up and says "Why me?" "I'm not leaving...".
    Cut to a scene where the pilot, co-pilot, and cabin staff begin to file off the plane. An announcement is made that the flight has been delayed for one hour and would everyone please leave the plane. If the complainant remains, it will be a much simpler matter to deal with him, that's if he can stand the wrath of the other 100 or so people he's just delayed.
    Get everyone on your side, then re-admit the passengers you really want on that plane.
    That HE delayed? You mean the airline surely? You make it sound like the guy is a criminal! He did nothing wrong... as a passenger I wouldn't be pissed at him.. I'd be pissed at the airline for their cock-up and subsequent mistreatment of a fellow passenger...

    Looks like United don't learn either...

    Bride, groom ?dragged? from United Airlines flight
    Last edited by Waharoa; 17th April 2017 at 17:42.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Thin White Duke's Avatar
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    Jeez his injuries are quite substantial according to CNN.

    Concussion....broken front teeth...there is quite a list

  10. #50
    Senior Member dontpanic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc26 View Post
    I'm a huge "just shut your mouth around cops because it won't make anything better" guy
    Every time I got arrested I just shut my mouth......no use in arguing with them

    But I would have been arguing my ass off if I was getting booted out of my seat
    555 Every time you got arrested, jez how many times was that?

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waharoa View Post
    That HE delayed? You mean the airline surely? You make it sound like the guy is a criminal! He did nothing wrong... as a passenger I wouldn't be pissed at him.. I'd be pissed at the airline for their cock-up and subsequent mistreatment of a fellow passenger...
    This blame mentality about who's pissed off and who's wrong after the fact, it really doesn't help anything.

    My example started from the premise that what United wanted to do was "Lawful" and as far as I can see it was.

    Their airline, their rules. Would this not have been a better way of resolving things?
    I doubt that other passengers (except you) would give a rats ass about the airline policy if they knew someone was refusing to get off the plane and that was the reason they were being delayed.

    Whether or not the way they actually ended up removing the man is lawful, right, wrong or heavy handed is not in question here. I can see passengers taking his side there.
    Last edited by Changone; 17th April 2017 at 18:30.

  12. #52
    Senior Member Waharoa's Avatar
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    If he sues I am sure he will lose if what United did was right...

    If it is lawful to physically attack customers at random when the airline makes an error... then I take it back...

  13. #53
    Senior Member Thin White Duke's Avatar
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    It seems heavy handed to me.

    Actually way over.

  14. #54
    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dontpanic View Post
    555 Every time you got arrested, jez how many times was that?
    Less than 10.....more than 5!

  15. #55
    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Changone View Post
    This blame mentality about who's pissed off and who's wrong after the fact, it really doesn't help anything.

    My example started from the premise that what United wanted to do was "Lawful" and as far as I can see it was.

    Their airline, their rules. Would this not have been a better way of resolving things?
    I doubt that other passengers (except you) would give a rats ass about the airline policy if they knew someone was refusing to get off the plane and that was the reason they were being delayed.

    Whether or not the way they actually ended up removing the man is lawful, right, wrong or heavy handed is not in question here. I can see passengers taking his side there.
    The thing is.....unless you fly in North America you don't really know how bad it has become and I think this may have finally been the breaking point where people are saying enough is enough
    It really is like an "us vs them" mentality
    See anyone have a simple disagreement with an airline staff and how heavy-handed they react in almost every situation.......instead of trying to solve the issue

    If JetBlue and Southwest can treat their customers with respect........why can't the major airlines?

    I sat next to a United in-flight staff....younger guy in his 30's. We were on a JetBlue flight and talking how great the service is and he said they get yelled at by the older stewardess for doing too much

  16. #56
    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waharoa View Post
    If he sues I am sure he will lose if what United did was right...

    If it is lawful to physically attack customers at random when the airline makes an error... then I take it back...
    Won't make it to court........will settle
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  17. #57
    Senior Member nelsonone's Avatar
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    Has United's stock price fully rebounded yet?....or is there an actual loss?...it's been a week now i guess so enough time to see if any real damage has been done to United's reputation...where it hurts

  18. #58
    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nelsonone View Post
    Has United's stock price fully rebounded yet?....or is there an actual loss?...it's been a week now i guess so enough time to see if any real damage has been done to United's reputation...where it hurts
    Off 2.00.......earnings out today
    nelsonone likes this.

  19. #59
    Senior Member Thin White Duke's Avatar
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    I was treated very badly imo by USA immigration back in 1995.

    Was detained and expected the rubber glove the way they were carrying on.

    Always left a bad taste regardless of how much I enjoyed the country subsequently.

  20. #60
    Senior Member stupscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thin White Duke View Post
    I was treated very badly imo by USA immigration back in 1995.

    Was detained and expected the rubber glove the way they were carrying on.

    Always left a bad taste regardless of how much I enjoyed the country subsequently.
    Try again, under the Trump administration you're probably more likely to get the rubber glove treatment and you can enjoy everything you were expecting!

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