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Thread: "Tin Foil"

  1. #721
    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
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    haha
    that was very clever

  2. #722
    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivinLOS View Post
    No but it does prop up the military industries which lobby the government.. Not the entire economy, but a powerful subset of it..
    and something i have been saying
    total agreement there

  3. #723
    Senior Member faultytowers's Avatar
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    Before the Iraq invasion we had the "dodgy dossier" , this time we have had both British and American documents 'justifying' military action against Syria.

    As both these documents state that 'open source' and social media articles/videos have been used to "prove" their points , that the Syrian government (and only the Syrian government !) could have been responsible for any chemical weapons attack , here are some links that could be used in a "Faulty Factfile" to 'prove' that the rebels/terrorists "could" have been involved.

    U.N. has testimony that Syrian rebels used sarin gas: investigator
    (Reuters) - U.N. human rights investigators have gathered testimony from casualties of Syria's civil war and medical staff indicating that rebel forces have used the nerve agent sarin, one of the lead investigators said on Sunday
    U.N. has testimony that Syrian rebels used sarin gas: investigator | Reuters

    Iraq claims foiling al-Qaeda nerve-gas plot

    Iraq's defence ministry has said that it has intercepted an al-Qaeda cell working to produce poisonous gas for attacks within the country as well as in Europe and North America.
    The group of five men built two facilities in Baghdad to produce sarin and mustard gas, using instructions from another al-Qaeda group, spokesman Mohammed al-Askari said on Saturday.
    Iraq claims foiling al-Qaeda nerve-gas plot - Middle East - Al Jazeera English

    Turkey seizes sarin in homes of anti-Syria militants, reports say

    Turkish security forces have confiscated two kilograms of the nerve agent sarin after raiding the homes of militants from the terrorist al-Nusra Front fighting against Syria, Turkey’s media report.
    PressTV - Turkey seizes sarin in homes of anti-Syria militants, reports say

    EXCLUSIVE: Syrians In Ghouta Claim Saudi-Supplied Rebels Behind Chemical Attack

    Rebels and local residents in Ghouta accuse Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan of providing chemical weapons to an al-Qaida linked rebel group.
    EXCLUSIVE: Syrians In Ghouta Claim Saudi-Supplied Rebels Behind Chemical Attack

    The "Faulty Factfile" concedes intelligence that the opposition/rebels used chemical weapons is not "100% certain".

    It does appear "highly likely" that the opposition/rebels may have been responsible for earlier chemical attacks.

    But he added: "In the end there is no 100% certainty about who is responsible."

    Any military action should be based on the principle that "evidence should precede decision; not decision precede evidence".

  4. #724
    Senior Member faultytowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc26 View Post
    but none of that makes sense
    your country, through the view of the people, did vote against, and had the right to make their own decision and they did
    My comments were aimed at those who thought we should blindly follow America's lead , no matter if it was wrong , my point was simply that both countries should make their own decisions.

  5. #725
    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by faultytowers View Post
    My comments were aimed at those who thought we should blindly follow America's lead , no matter if it was wrong , my point was simply that both countries should make their own decisions.
    makes sense now
    but you can see if you were just spouting that off without it being a reply(which i probably should have realized) how it would make no sense since that is actually what happened
    so i was bit there confused there, won't be the last time 555

    this Obama flip-flopping is mad
    like i said, you'd like to believe he listened to reason.......but unlikely

  6. #726
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc26 View Post
    and something i have been saying
    total agreement there
    Also trading very carefully around the anti Semite accusations.. yet again the us military might is working on taking out an long term enemy of Israel..

    Handy for Zionism to have all those Jewish senators in congress ??

  7. #727
    Senior Member Waharoa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivinLOS View Post
    Also trading very carefully around the anti Semite accusations.. yet again the us military might is working on taking out an long term enemy of Israel..

    Handy for Zionism to have all those Jewish senators in congress ??
    It's also strongly Saudi driven. Syria intervention plans fuelled by oil interests, not chemical weapon concerns | Nafeez Ahmed | Environment | theguardian.com

  8. #728
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Yes but despite the fundamental groups in both countries.. Saudi and isreal seem to have come to a behind the scenes arrangement to fight the less religious hard line Shiite states in the region..

  9. #729
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    Why is that in Israels interest other than to ensure continued hostilities?

    I quite liked the sound of quote 18 TBH as it would fix the original US/UN fuckup that has caused 100% of all the trouble through the years...although that would mean a very dirty weapon and nuke battle....from the opposition only of course...

  10. #730
    Senior Member billpay's Avatar
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    It looks like that Obama could be backtracking. As much as I think he is a terrible president in general, I give him credit for having balls enough to back down rather than taking the 'macho' route.

  11. #731
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    Surely Israel is armed to the backteeth by now from US aid -and they have a missile shield.
    If Syria is a threat to them - why don't they take them out?

    Then the US and UN and every other interloper can fck off out of there and let them go at it.




    It woud be good for the price of palm oil.
    Last edited by Evilbaz; 1st September 2013 at 20:08.

  12. #732
    Senior Member faultytowers's Avatar
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    I really don't know enough about American politics but over the past couple of days it seems Kerry is playing the hawk while Obama is looking a bit sheepish ?

    First Kerry come out with a figure of 1,429 dead (when other sources put number much lower) then just after Obama 'backs down' Kerry suddenly drops the fact that they now know sarin was used (still no 100% percent proof who used it).

    Politics or a power play ?

  13. #733
    Senior Member faultytowers's Avatar
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    The number of people killed in the chemical weapons attack has been quote at anything from 300+ to Kerry's extremely accurate figure of 1,429.

    Everyone admits this is horrendous and some form of action should be taken , below are quotes from Obama's speech , other politicians have used similar words (so this is not having a go only at Obama).

    the worst chemical weapons attack of the 21st Century

    and acknowledging that a chemical weapons attack took place.

    hospitals overflowing with victims; terrible images of the dead

    Several hundred of them were children - young girls and boys gassed to death by their own government.

    It could lead to escalating use of chemical weapons, or their proliferation to terrorist groups who would do our people harm.

    What message will we send if a dictator can gas hundreds of children to death in plain sight and pay no price?

    we cannot turn away from the massacre of countless civilians with chemical weapons.

    But what if the figure was twice as many or even three times as many dead , what would "we" do ?

    The answer is sweet fuck all ! If the dictator doing the gassing was 'on our side' !

    In 1988 the Halabja poison gas attack took place during the last days of the Iran-Iraq war , the attack killed between 3,200 and 5,000 people, and injured around 7,000 to 10,000 more. The incident, which has been officially defined as an act of genocide against the Kurdish people in Iraq.

    International response at the time was muted. The United States intelligence and government suggested that that Kurdish civilians were not a deliberate target, and even that Iran was indeed responsible.

    Punitive measures such as unilateral sanctions would not be effective in changing Iraq's behaviour over chemical weapons, and would damage British interests to no avail.

    The CIA altered its position radically in the late 1990s and cited Halabja frequently in its evidence of weapons of mass destruction before the 2003 invasion of Iraq.


    So , Saddam kills thousands of people using chemical weapons and the West sit on their backsides doing nothing .............. because he was "our" murderer ! I guess we weren't pushing for regime change then , that came later !

    Funny how we only want to take 'punitive' action against those who aren't on 'our' side and ignore human rights abuses/genocide etc when the offending dictator/king/sheikh has something we want , money/oil/military bases !



    RANT OVER !

  14. #734
    Senior Member Waharoa's Avatar
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    Taking nothing away from your rant Faulty... as its all likely true... But when has it ever been about what is morally right? It's always been about what political purpose any action will serve isn't it? Or have there been true moral-based actions by govts that I missed?

  15. #735
    Senior Member faultytowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waharoa View Post
    Taking nothing away from your rant Faulty... as its all likely true... But when has it ever been about what is morally right? It's always been about what political purpose any action will serve isn't it? Or have there been true moral-based actions by govts that I missed?
    I agree that politics has absolutely nothing to do with what is morally right , what pisses me off is the hypocrisy and double standards. Politicians claiming the moral high ground when it suits their purposes and expecting the "sheeple" to believe their lies.

    As was shown with Saddam it is not unthinkable that the wrong side are being deliberately blamed for a chemical attack simply because those responsible are (at present !) fighting a common enemy.

  16. #736
    Senior Member Waharoa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by faultytowers View Post
    I agree that politics has absolutely nothing to do with what is morally right , what pisses me off is the hypocrisy and double standards. Politicians claiming the moral high ground when it suits their purposes and expecting the "sheeple" to believe their lies.

    As was shown with Saddam it is not unthinkable that the wrong side are being deliberately blamed for a chemical attack simply because those responsible are (at present !) fighting a common enemy.
    But can you imagine it if Govts old the truth... 555. OK, this regime has just killed 2000 civilians, but we need them as an ally to fight this other bunch of baddies... so we'll ignore that for now. We may come back to it though if they don't go along with what we want...

    Now don't forget to vote us back in so we can sort out this big hole we've dug for ourselves...

    It's a big game of smoke and mirrors and the public just need to be kept calm... and supportive... so we'll mention morals, God and outrage every now and then...

  17. #737
    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billpay View Post
    It looks like that Obama could be backtracking. As much as I think he is a terrible president in general, I give him credit for having balls enough to back down rather than taking the 'macho' route.
    i don't know Bill, we seem to be switching positions here! 555

    i'd like to think he did it for the right reasons but i think this NY Post article sums it up nicely
    just another one of his "hey, you can't blame me" deals

    Goodwin: Obama puts politics over morals in abdicating presidential authority in Syria - NYPOST.com

  18. #738
    Senior Member Dupree's Avatar
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    Secretary of State John Kerry says Syria used Sarin gas in chemical attacks - NY Daily News

    “Blood and hair samples that have come to us through an appropriate chain of custody from east Damascus, from first responders, have tested positive for signatures of Sarin,” Kerry said on CNN’s “State of the Union.”

    “We know the regime ordered this attack. We know the damage that was done afterward,” Kerry said.
    What does this quote mean? Blood and hair samples from the launch area? How does this prove Assad was responsible?
    “Vote for Trump and grab them by the poosy "

  19. #739
    Senior Member kris-one's Avatar
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    I think he means hair from the victims.




  20. #740
    Senior Member Waharoa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc26 View Post
    i don't know Bill, we seem to be switching positions here! 555

    i'd like to think he did it for the right reasons but i think this NY Post article sums it up nicely
    just another one of his "hey, you can't blame me" deals

    Goodwin: Obama puts politics over morals in abdicating presidential authority in Syria - NYPOST.com
    As mentioned a few posts ago... when has any govt put morals over politics?

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