Results 1 to 20 of 20
Like Tree3Likes
  • 1 Post By marc26
  • 1 Post By dontpanic
  • 1 Post By LivinLOS

Thread: A little airline common sense coming your way?

  1. #1
    Senior Member stupscott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    420

    A little airline common sense coming your way?

    It looks like at least one of those irritating restrictions/rules around flying is at last being addressed.

    Full article - http://www.dallasnews.com/business/a...nclick_check=1

    In a victory for Kindle users, iPod players and Alec Baldwins everywhere, the Federal Aviation Administration has decided it wonít make you put away your electronics during takeoffs and landings anymore.The FAA said Thursday that after careful study, itís decided that personal electronic devices (PED) donít present a threat to airplane safety. Ergo, passengers will be able to use their electronic toys from gate to gate ó though using a cellphone to talk and text remains banned.


  2. #2
    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Vancouver BC
    Posts
    10,632
    Quote Originally Posted by stupscott View Post
    It looks like at least one of those irritating restrictions/rules around flying is at last being addressed.

    Full article - http://www.dallasnews.com/business/a...nclick_check=1

    In a victory for Kindle users, iPod players and Alec Baldwins everywhere, the Federal Aviation Administration has decided it won’t make you put away your electronics during takeoffs and landings anymore.The FAA said Thursday that after careful study, it’s decided that personal electronic devices (PED) don’t present a threat to airplane safety. Ergo, passengers will be able to use their electronic toys from gate to gate — though using a cellphone to talk and text remains banned.

    i'd prefer they don't because i fear it will open the door for cellphone use and that will be horrendous
    people can't stay off their devices for the 20mins during takeoff/landing? come on
    Evilbaz likes this.

  3. #3
    Senior Member dontpanic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    1,823
    For sure, the race to turn them on once the plane comes to a halt is just cringe all to send a just landed message to someone most likely in the arrivals hall looking at an arrivals screen.
    Waharoa likes this.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    682
    Quote Originally Posted by marc26 View Post
    i'd prefer they don't because i fear it will open the door for cellphone use and that will be horrendous
    people can't stay off their devices for the 20mins during takeoff/landing? come on
    Dont worry Paulie, Cell/Mobile phones have to be on airplane mode or switched off completely, same as always so you wont get any more idiots making phone calls during take off than usual.

    This only covers non transmitting devices and I'll give it as long as it takes butterfingers to lose his Iphone as 100 kilonewtons of thrust is applied and flies back into the face of Larry Lawyer.

    BTW, I'm someone who switches their phone off in the terminal and puts it into their carry on.
    This post is known by the state of California to potentially contain more than the maximum daily allowance of awesome.

  5. #5
    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Vancouver BC
    Posts
    10,632
    Quote Originally Posted by mjwx View Post
    Dont worry Paulie, Cell/Mobile phones have to be on airplane mode or switched off completely, same as always so you wont get any more idiots making phone calls during take off than usual.

    This only covers non transmitting devices and I'll give it as long as it takes butterfingers to lose his Iphone as 100 kilonewtons of thrust is applied and flies back into the face of Larry Lawyer.

    BTW, I'm someone who switches their phone off in the terminal and puts it into their carry on.
    but i feel once they allow some devices it will open the doors for everything to be used
    i just fear idiots talking on the phone on planes

  6. #6
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    14,153
    Quote Originally Posted by marc26 View Post
    but i feel once they allow some devices it will open the doors for everything to be used
    i just fear idiots talking on the phone on planes
    But do you even need cell signal anymore.. With skype, viber, and the new google hangouts (superb app btw and will be central in the new kitkat android release) voice over data is becoming the norm.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    682
    Quote Originally Posted by marc26 View Post
    but i feel once they allow some devices it will open the doors for everything to be used
    i just fear idiots talking on the phone on planes
    I doubt it, as soon as there's one incident that results in a law suit airlines will put a stop to it.

    The problem is, that despite the bans there are already idiots who refuse to turn off their phone believing its all a giant conspiracy theory to... Well they've never been able to explain what the greater goal of getting people to turn off their phones is... But they're certain it's bad and impinging on their rights (so on and so forth).

    When asked to turn off my phone, I'll do it simply because I've been politely asked and it's just the polite thing to do and really cant stand the people who think they know better.
    This post is known by the state of California to potentially contain more than the maximum daily allowance of awesome.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    682
    Quote Originally Posted by LivinLOS View Post
    But do you even need cell signal anymore.. With skype, viber, and the new google hangouts (superb app btw and will be central in the new kitkat android release) voice over data is becoming the norm.
    I received free WiFi on my Southwest flights. It was so slow it wasn't funny. I highly doubt a single satellite connection could handle 5 simultaneous voice connections with the lag you get from satellite internet. Considering there will be 2-500 odd sheep on a plane, they'll take to blocking voice protocols pretty quick.

    On my flights, they turned the WiFi off during take off and landing and I think this is the time that M26 is most worried about. Once you get above 300 odd meters a cell signal is going to be pretty hard to find as most towers point towards the ground.
    This post is known by the state of California to potentially contain more than the maximum daily allowance of awesome.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Pablo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    4,321
    Quote Originally Posted by mjwx View Post
    I doubt it, as soon as there's one incident that results in a law suit airlines will put a stop to it.

    The problem is, that despite the bans there are already idiots who refuse to turn off their phone believing its all a giant conspiracy theory to... Well they've never been able to explain what the greater goal of getting people to turn off their phones is... But they're certain it's bad and impinging on their rights (so on and so forth).

    When asked to turn off my phone, I'll do it simply because I've been politely asked and it's just the polite thing to do and really cant stand the people who think they know better.
    As a pilot, I have observed on at least a couple of occasions, where a cell call seems to have interfered with the aircraft navigation receivers. More so in the older aircraft it seems.

    I don't think the FAA and other regulatory agencies really have a handle on what's happening with all the advanced electronics, and their effect on air safety etc. So, it's better to err on the side of safety.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Pablo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    4,321
    ^^^^^


    And ONCE, where a non compliant passenger refused to turn his cell off! He had been asked on three occasions during flight (coast to coast flight), but ignored the flight attendant request. After landing at a fog-shrouded LAX, the passenger again started in with his cell phone and was asked to stop. A ruckus in the cabin ensued, with the flight attendants calling the cockpit for help...the guy was standing up and shouting and such!

    In the meantime, while I was trying to stay on the taxiways and find my way to the terminal parking, the distraction in the cabin caused both myself and the other pilot to "miss" an instruction from the control tower. We started to encroach on an area that we were directed to hold short of (missed it), and had to come to a screeching stop to avoid striking another aircraft taxiing in the fog! I was pissed off, for sure!

  11. #11
    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Vancouver BC
    Posts
    10,632
    Quote Originally Posted by mjwx View Post
    On my flights, they turned the WiFi off during take off and landing and I think this is the time that M26 is most worried about. Once you get above 300 odd meters a cell signal is going to be pretty hard to find as most towers point towards the ground.
    no, i am worried about retards shouting into their phones or into skype or line or even trying to, without success
    cell phones are allowed on Amtrak and the idiots are so loud, they need to designate quiet cars for normal people

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    682
    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo View Post
    As a pilot, I have observed on at least a couple of occasions, where a cell call seems to have interfered with the aircraft navigation receivers. More so in the older aircraft it seems.

    I don't think the FAA and other regulatory agencies really have a handle on what's happening with all the advanced electronics, and their effect on air safety etc. So, it's better to err on the side of safety.
    This.

    I think it's common knowelege that the FAA/CASA are overly cautious, but there's some good bloody reasons they are this way. Any kind of accident is a bad thing for everyone, airlines, pilots, passengers, investors, anyone.
    This post is known by the state of California to potentially contain more than the maximum daily allowance of awesome.

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    682
    Quote Originally Posted by marc26 View Post
    no, i am worried about retards shouting into their phones or into skype or line or even trying to, without success
    cell phones are allowed on Amtrak and the idiots are so loud, they need to designate quiet cars for normal people
    I dont think this is an issue, you can already use electronic devices (non transmitting) in cruise. Nothing here has changed.

    WiFi on planes is nowhere near enough bandwidth for skype or any similar protocols so they will be blocked (they probably already are, along with all forms of Peer to Peer) and even over a city, you'll be hard pressed to find a cellular signal that works at altitude.

    I think the problem with come with people using devices in take off and landing in a clearly dangerous manner. People are already pretty arrogant about this (as per Pablo's post) and I think they'll get worse.

  14. #14
    Senior Member NeedHoliday's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,105
    Surely if phones were "dangerous" at any point on a flight they'd be banned from the cabin completely? If having a phone switched on is so dangerous, why don't terrorists just bring a bag full onboard?

    I think that's why a lot of people refuse to turn them off - they know it's not going to cause anything to happen or they would be point blank banned, so being asked to do so with no relevant basis, even more so with airplane mode, causes people to instantly question the order.

    It annoys the hell out of me being asked to turn it off.

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    682
    I'm not an expert on aircraft navigation or communications systems.... But I am a bit of an expert on network and telephony systems.

    We can accurately model exactly what will happen with a perfectly working mobile phone on a plane (or with any other radio/microwave system). The problem is, as soon as you get a device that is not perfect, a parameter is changed, all that modeling goes out the window and all bets are off.

    One malformed signal can potentially wreak havoc. 20 malformed signals has a good chance of at least causing some interference. We cant guarantee that every phone that gets on a plane is in perfect working order, I've done testing for 2 ways and that takes a while for each radio (and I wasn't testing to see if they worked perfectly, I was just testing that they worked properly).

    If you dont think malformed mobile signals are common, remember the Iphone 4 release. Simply holding the phone malformed the signal enough to make it drop calls. Mobile phone antennas often line the edges of the case inside the plastic, so dropping the phone is enough to damage the antenna and this can easily change the electrical length which changes the frequency on which the device transmits (which was what happened with the Iphone 4 when you held it, your hand became part of the antenna).

    OK, all of this is a "might happen" but with you're dealing with a few hundred people on a $300 million dollar aircraft with more than a few tonnes of fuel on board and very little chance to escape, do you want to risk something that "might" happen.
    This post is known by the state of California to potentially contain more than the maximum daily allowance of awesome.

  16. #16
    Senior Member NeedHoliday's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,105
    Quote Originally Posted by mjwx View Post
    OK, all of this is a "might happen" but with you're dealing with a few hundred people on a $300 million dollar aircraft with more than a few tonnes of fuel on board and very little chance to escape, do you want to risk something that "might" happen.
    There's probably hundreds of things that "might" happen - surely any one of them that have a chance of causing problems would be banned outright? Laptop battery's "could" explode for example, yet they're allowed in the cabin. At some point you have to draw the line on what "might happen" or you'd never get off the ground.

    Has there *ever* been a documented/verified case linking a mobile phone to an aircraft problem?

  17. #17
    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Vancouver BC
    Posts
    10,632
    Quote Originally Posted by NeedHoliday View Post
    Surely if phones were "dangerous" at any point on a flight they'd be banned from the cabin completely? If having a phone switched on is so dangerous, why don't terrorists just bring a bag full onboard?

    I think that's why a lot of people refuse to turn them off - they know it's not going to cause anything to happen or they would be point blank banned, so being asked to do so with no relevant basis, even more so with airplane mode, causes people to instantly question the order.

    It annoys the hell out of me being asked to turn it off.
    you really can't go about 30 total minutes without looking at your phone?

  18. #18
    Senior Member NeedHoliday's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,105
    Quote Originally Posted by marc26 View Post
    you really can't go about 30 total minutes without looking at your phone?
    It's the reason for being asked to turn it off that annoys me, not the part about not being able to use it.

  19. #19
    Senior Member dontpanic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    1,823
    Quote Originally Posted by NeedHoliday View Post
    It's the reason for being asked to turn it off that annoys me, not the part about not being able to use it.
    Read Mjwx's reply. A lot of people have a serious comfort blanket/addiction with their phones, I remember an early episode of Star Trek Next Generation where some game was spreading like crazy amongst the crew, similarly to a google glass device and people were walking around in their own world or at the bar with loads of other people just playing this game. We're there already with phones and taking endless pictures of nonsense.

    I was at a fundraiser thing a few weeks ago and some finger food came out and someone at the table took a not so flattering picture of me eating, she showed it to me thinking it would get a great laugh and I fkn flipped, marched over to her grabbed her phone, deleted the picture and told her in no uncertain terms that the next time she does that her phone will be taking a trip to the nearest river. I really do have a lot of concerns about this surveillance society, people give out about cctv but everyone carries around their own cctv in their pocket. I got some Christmas gifts thing from Argos the other day and one of the "toys" was a pair of sunglasses with a hidden camera and a usb/wireless connector. FFS kids going around filming their parents saying everything and anything and then uploading it onto the internet without a care in the world.

    I know I'm fighting a losing battle on this one, society and their constant need for phones is my pet hate of this generation.

  20. #20
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    14,153
    If you think that facebook 'auto tagging' facial recognition isnt being plundered hard by the NSA to know where people are all the time.. No matter if you have it on or off.. I have this fine bridge for sale.
    Dkdude likes this.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •