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Thread: When fun is outlawed.. Only outlaws...

  1. #1
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    When fun is outlawed.. Only outlaws...

    Just saw the BMW CES autonomous driving vid..



    Of course as a gear head my first reaction is WOW.. But the fact is, in 10 maybe 20 years tops, we wont be driving ourselves.. We will all sit in little computer controlled boxes.

    That leaves me more than a little sad.. How much fun have cars and the sensation of controlling machinery brought ??

    Kind of a "I dont want to live on this planet anymore" vibe..



    BMW's autonomous drift car explained - News - Road & Track

  2. #2
    Senior Member soupdragon's Avatar
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    Don't worry human nature dictates that someone will write a virus for the controlling software and send a few over the cliff, then manual override will be compulsory
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  3. #3
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Ohh I am sure there will be a manual over ride.. But as with anything, once it becomes the norm, peoples actual driving skills will plummet, and it will be another thing thats become homogenized and heath and safetied out of the window.

    I had huge pleasure driving cars hard and wild as a teenager.. Despite a couple of minor offs and ditch hops I never once impacted another car.. I never once hurt myself or anyone else (despite being pure tools doing stuff like hanging on roofs of cars at 80 plus through tiny country lanes) and no actual harm came of it.. That sensation of controlling a out of control thing, of mastering a slide with power input and brakes to balance drift.. Gravity and inertia v grip and power.. It was a huge high and something I loved doing and did all the time.

    Now you go back to the UK and its simply impossible to do that and keep your license.. Theres cameras everywhere, drive like I used to for a day and you will probably have your letter of disqualification in the mail.. Hence everyone drives in these long dull queues of cars, all sitting at the speed limit, all in regimental mediocrity.. Theres almost no point in owning a performance car as theres no way to use it, and all the costs and hassles stay the same without the upside.

    It might be safer, but its soul crushing.. Whats the value of that ??
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    Senior Member MrDK's Avatar
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    So you should be able to drive home drunk?

  5. #5
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    I doubt that automated cars will be legally trusted without a designated driver..

    These will be considered like cruise control.. And simply reduce everyone to the same dull regulated consistent speed and experience..

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    I can see a place for that on motorways. Inside lane on auto and get on with working / sleeping / whatever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LivinLOS View Post
    Ohh I am sure there will be a manual over ride.. But as with anything, once it becomes the norm, peoples actual driving skills will plummet,
    But that has already happened.

    Look at the number of people in Australia getting automatic restricted licences because they're too lazy to learn how to drive. In the US, 90% of cars are Automatics (trying to find a manual rental car is harder than trying to find an honest politician). Then look at all the assistance technologies, brake assist, park assist, lane assist, blindspot sensors. People's driving skills have already hit rock bottom and they're digging at full speed. People have utterly convinced themselves that these technologies will not only compensate for a lack of basic driving skill (such as looking and signalling) but actually make them better drivers.

    In Australia, over 75% of accidents are caused by driver error.

    I dare say, we've reached the point where we have smart cars and stupid drivers.

    It's reached the point where most people on the road cant be called drivers any more, their only task seems to be sitting in front of a steering wheel and as someone who enjoys driving, I look forward to the day when the average steering wheel attendant is no longer in control and no longer making the dangerous mistakes I see them make on a daily basis. Bring on the automated car, for everyone else.
    This post is known by the state of California to potentially contain more than the maximum daily allowance of awesome.

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    Senior Member sundancekid's Avatar
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    Ok, being a contrarian again as usual I guess… But never had any kind of relationship with motorized vehicles. For me it has always been an A-to-B contract. Getting there safely being the main objective.

    Kinda get the freedom aspect, but would prefer doing automated journeys for long hauls or regular commutes, and then being able to explore the back roads manually. Imagine the time freed up, as well as the huge gains in efficiency by pooling the flow of traffic.

    Besides, as a species we’re not really conditioned or fit even to control these vehicles at high speeds, with the bare minimum of training mind. Like, how many elephants died last year from crashing with each other, or into a tree? If you crave the adrenaline rush then rent a closed track and let loose.

  9. #9
    Super Moderator dawsey's Avatar
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    The only way to enjoy driving in the UK now is to join car clubs and go to track days. I finally bought a pretty quick Supercharged V8 Mercedes last year, but fed up pottering around town and seeing stupid mpg, I joined a couple of UK Mercedes forums and went to a track day at Bruntingthorpe, a disused airfield, where you can finally drive the cars flat out under controlled conditions.
    Wow, what an adrenalin buzz to see your car hit 175mph and it's still pulling like a train! Don't know what it will do, but I ran out of road and the fun factor was huge.
    BMW can keep their controlled cars, but I guess it's the way for the future, like it or not.
    RIP Nicke June 1971 - Jan 2013.

    AT SOME POINT IN LIFE, EVERYONE HAS GAMBLED ON A FART AND LOST.

  10. #10
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundancekid View Post
    Ok, being a contrarian again as usual I guess… But never had any kind of relationship with motorized vehicles. For me it has always been an A-to-B contract. Getting there safely being the main objective.

    Kinda get the freedom aspect, but would prefer doing automated journeys for long hauls or regular commutes, and then being able to explore the back roads manually. Imagine the time freed up, as well as the huge gains in efficiency by pooling the flow of traffic.

    Besides, as a species we’re not really conditioned or fit even to control these vehicles at high speeds, with the bare minimum of training mind. Like, how many elephants died last year from crashing with each other, or into a tree? If you crave the adrenaline rush then rent a closed track and let loose.
    I sort of agree with your logic, in that its sensible.. But if you dont need to learn manually, then you dont learn the skills, the finesse, the basic building blocks that go to make up the higher skill.. You dont discover your taste for it, you dont even know what a high there is hiding in there.. I mean who gets excited about a train ride ?? I used to take a longer more convoluted route every day to a building project I did, simply as it was my morning and evening hoon, through the back roads.. A bright bit in each day.

    Yes you can go to a track, something I think should be encouraged and I would now, as an adult with some disposable income, for sure be a part of.. But that relegates the enjoyment to a special occasion.. It makes it only for the rare days when its possible.. It used to be part of the daily fabric of my youth and thats gone, its simply not possible now. I think it may well be safer.. But its also a little sadder.

  11. #11
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dawsey View Post
    The only way to enjoy driving in the UK now is to join car clubs and go to track days. I finally bought a pretty quick Supercharged V8 Mercedes last year, but fed up pottering around town and seeing stupid mpg, I joined a couple of UK Mercedes forums and went to a track day at Bruntingthorpe, a disused airfield, where you can finally drive the cars flat out under controlled conditions.
    Wow, what an adrenalin buzz to see your car hit 175mph and it's still pulling like a train! Don't know what it will do, but I ran out of road and the fun factor was huge.
    BMW can keep their controlled cars, but I guess it's the way for the future, like it or not.
    I went on a BMW car club trip to the ring when I had my nice beemer.. Great time.. Got totally schooled by some local lad in a cheap 328 who obviously knew the track and could really drive. Me in the big expensive near super car.. Him in a hotted up low budget thing.. I got my ass handed to me !!! Damn !!!

    But I think its very few and far between that have access to these (tho maybe thats changed a lot) certainly it wasnt there before.. Reminds me I recently signed an online petition that a local MX track that had been there years back in somerset had been closed down, because of noise complaints. But then people complain that young people are hanging out on the streets, and doing bad shit... If you take away the constructive things, things that can kickstart interests and passions, is it any surprise that they are drinking cider in bus stops ?? I know an MX track makes some noise, but it had been there for years, it wasnt 'new' people moving or building close to it should know thats there.. Plus its not like noise at night or dawn, when did we all get the right to never tolerate another persons interest causing some sound ??

  12. #12
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Rereading the above.. It makes me sound like I am advocating legalizing street racing or something, which I am not..

    I just think its not all good as the world gets safer and more sanitized.. Where rules dictate every facet of daily life and make it safe, but lets face it, dull and boring... Life needs more walls of death !! I am a lot more scared of not living than I am of dying.. Grey commutes being driven by a machine as smooth as it can, to my 50 hour a week job in a cubicle under flouro strip lights ?? That fills me with terror.

    Not only are dirtbikes being banned from public rights of way and national parks.. But they are banning mountain bikes !! Mountain bikes are apparently 'wearing out' the millions of year old mountains !!

    No camping, no trespass, no rights of access to woodlands or national trust.. Just seems way too many 'nos' !!

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    Super Moderator dawsey's Avatar
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    Last edited by dawsey; 12th January 2014 at 04:50.
    RIP Nicke June 1971 - Jan 2013.

    AT SOME POINT IN LIFE, EVERYONE HAS GAMBLED ON A FART AND LOST.

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    Best fun I used to have as a young "hoon" was sliding my little 302 Windsor powered XY Falcon Ute.

    Nothing more satisfying than showing off to the girls in the car next to yours by being sideways, right next to their car at a right handed intersection.

    I learnt how to drive in old paddock bombs we'd pick up by pooling our money on a Friday arvo and picking up whatever bomb was available.
    We ended up liking VW beetles, because you could take the body of by removing, I think it was only 9 bolts.
    We'd remove the body, weld a couple of seats in and voila an instant dirt tracker..

    Funniest memory of those times was one afternoon when we'd removed the body off one of the beetles and were heading to dump the body.
    We had bar bells thru the wheel arches and a kid on each corner, almost at the designated dumping ground when a copper pulled up next to us in his car.
    "And where do you boys think you're going with that" - asked the copper.

    Quick as a flash one of the boys shouted "just taking our car for a walk officer" !

    That was how we learnt how to (control) slide our V8 Utes and whatever else we ended up with.
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  15. #15
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dawsey View Post
    I sort of smoke wit yo' logic, up in dat its sensible.. But if you dont need ta learn manually, then you dont learn tha game, tha finesse, tha basic buildin blocks dat git all up in make up tha higher skill.. Yo ass dont discover yo' taste fo' it, you dont even know what tha fuck a high there is hidin up in there.. I mean whoz ass gets buckwild on some train ride ?, biatch? I used ta take a longer mo' convoluted route every last muthafuckin dizzle ta a funky-ass buildin project I did, simply as dat shiznit was mah mornin n' evenin hoon, all up in tha back roads. fo' realz. A bright bit up in each day. It make me wanna hollar playa!
    Too funny.. Thats great.

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