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Thread: Hope this not hot air Dave !!!

  1. #1
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    Hope this not hot air Dave !!!

    Hope this is not hot air from David Cameron as something should have been done years ago!

    Lee Rigby aftermath: I'll gag the hate clerics: Cameron to launch new terror task force to stamp out religious extremism | Mail Online

    One of the biggest clowns is Anjem Choudary who been getting away with extremist teachings and radicalising people for far too long. Although they cannot deport him as he was born in Kent......hopefully this will open up ways for the UK government to start taking action !



  2. #2
    Senior Member NOM1S's Avatar
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    More than likely just hot air.. to keep the UKIP etc supporters at bay.

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    Senior Member faultytowers's Avatar
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    He'll "try" to gag the hate clerics but no doubt their lawyers will cite Human Rights/Freedom of Speech and get the European Courts involved (as Abu Qatada has done for too many years !).

    Meanwhile .......


    ......... the Tories , with Labour support , will quietly push through The Communications Data Bill (otherwise known as the snoopers charter) which will allow them to keep track of every phone call/e-mail/website you make/visit.

    The Communications Data Bill would have given police and security services access, without a warrant, to details of all online communication in the UK - such as the time, duration, originator and recipient, and the location of the device from which it was made.


    It would also give access to all Britons' web browsing history and details of messages sent on social media. The police would have to get a warrant from the home secretary to be able to access the actual content of conversations and messages
    BBC News - Tory-Labour pact could save data bill, says Lord Howard

    While I'm all in favour of them having the power/means to "eavesdrop" on suspected terrorists etc (with the authority of the courts after presenting due reason) , I personally feel that the sledge hammer approach (we are all 'suspects' so they'll record everything) is a step too far.

    Initially it will "only" be for terrorists .............. then maybe paedophiles .............. then perhaps tax evaders ................ then possibly people not paying alimony/child support ........ then ??????.

    I know there will be people who say "if you have done nothing wrong , you have nothing to hide/worry about" but I always thought we were innocent until proven guilty , not the other way round.

    What next , everyone's fingerprints and D.N.A , just in case you do something wrong in the future ?

    When the 'bad guys' do this sort of thing they are portrayed as dictatorial but all we do is throw the word "terror" into the mix and our civil rights go out the window !.

    Edit:
    Wonder how long it took to find a suitable acronym for the task force.

    Tackling Extremism and Radicalisation Task Force (TERFOR)
    Last edited by faultytowers; 27th May 2013 at 02:42.

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    Not sure I'd be too worried if they had my DNA and fingerprints as it would make it a hell of a lot easier to track the baddies if we were all known !

    What can they do with your DNA and fingerprints = clone another one of you.............

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    Senior Member faultytowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obes View Post
    Not sure I'd be too worried if they had my DNA and fingerprints as it would make it a hell of a lot easier to track the baddies if we were all known !

    What can they do with your DNA and fingerprints = clone another one of you.............
    No problem with them having access to every phone call you make or website you visit ?

    How about everyone wearing an ankle tag , then they could track you to make sure you weren't a baddie ?

    As for fingerprints and DNA , the law on when the police were allowed to take and retain them had to be changed last year because the rules being previously used were in violation of Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/public...otected-in-law

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    Quote Originally Posted by faultytowers View Post
    No problem with them having access to every phone call you make or website you visit ?

    How about everyone wearing an ankle tag , then they could track you to make sure you weren't a baddie ?

    As for fingerprints and DNA , the law on when the police were allowed to take and retain them had to be changed last year because the rules being previously used were in violation of Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/public...otected-in-law
    Not sure I'd want them tracking my internet usage - they might dob me into the missus for um looking at all those bike picks = cough !!

    Seriously though, if it makes the job of dealing with some of the growing number of complete nutters we seem to have out there, go for it.
    I reckon we should be issued (at birth) with a life long identification card that details all the information pertaining to you.

    And yeah I understand the biggest problem with any government, or even worse private sector company having that information is trusting them.....

  7. #7
    Senior Member faultytowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obes View Post
    Not sure I'd want them tracking my internet usage - they might dob me into the missus for um looking at all those bike picks = cough !!

    Seriously though, if it makes the job of dealing with some of the growing number of complete nutters we seem to have out there, go for it.
    I reckon we should be issued (at birth) with a life long identification card that details all the information pertaining to you.

    And yeah I understand the biggest problem with any government, or even worse private sector company having that information is trusting them.....
    To quote Benjamin Franklin :

    They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
    In 1949 George Orwell wrote a book called 1984 , it was a work of fiction , but society today is closer to his viewpoint than many thought possible in a free , democratic country.

    The Oceanian province of Airstrip One is a world of perpetual war, omnipresent government surveillance, and public mind control, dictated by a political system euphemistically named English Socialism (Ingsoc) under the control of a privileged Inner Party elite that persecutes all individualism and independent thinking as thoughtcrimes. Their tyranny is headed by Big Brother, the quasi-divine Party leader who enjoys an intense cult of personality, but who may not even exist. Big Brother and the Party justify their rule in the name of a supposed greater good. The protagonist of the novel, Winston Smith, is a member of the Outer Party who works for the Ministry of Truth (Minitrue), which is responsible for propaganda and historical revisionism. His job is to re-write past newspaper articles so that the historical record always supports the current party line.

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    All I can say is, it isn't 1949 now and I still believe if you are living your life in a peaceful, mostly law abiding way, you shouldn't have cause to fear "Big Brother" so much.

    I mean our identity is already subject to hackers who can and do steal what they want for monetary gain.

    I don't know what the answer is and certainly a lifetime identity card/system isn't the be all, but we, the moderates who simply want to live our lives in peace should be afforded that opportunity.......

  9. #9
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obes View Post
    I reckon we should be issued (at birth) with a life long identification card that details all the information pertaining to you.
    Maybe along with a nifty new tattoo on the inner arm ??

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    Senior Member steve w's Avatar
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    tatoo thing i get but if you do not do anything really wrong ,you got nothing to worry about 5555555555555 1984,room 101 ,with rats

    i;m a god boy though

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    Quote Originally Posted by NOM1S View Post
    More than likely just hot air.. to keep the UKIP etc supporters at bay.
    Yes you are probably right seems a bit of a coincidence all this tough talking lately when the UKIP have started to gain momentum !

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    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obes View Post
    All I can say is, it isn't 1949 now and I still believe if you are living your life in a peaceful, mostly law abiding way, you shouldn't have cause to fear "Big Brother" so much.

    I mean our identity is already subject to hackers who can and do steal what they want for monetary gain.

    I don't know what the answer is and certainly a lifetime identity card/system isn't the be all, but we, the moderates who simply want to live our lives in peace should be afforded that opportunity.......
    i've always had your attitude also, and i still don't get too worked up over things like CCTV cameras and such
    i still believe that most things we are talking about won't effect law abiding citizens, i think it leads to other things like when the police seemed to be demanding entry in Boston manhunt, or even when passport control doesn't feel the need to staff more than 2 people in JFK when the same 2 planes land every single day at the same time
    they are basically saying what we need/want is irrelevant and we have no say

    but there has been a noticeable shift in our rights and it will only get worse so whereas before i wouldn't be too fussed over these things, i would vote or argue against most of them
    plus given the fact, these govt law agencies seem like buffoons and will just fcuk it up anyways

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    Just do what the Sopranos do. Phone booths and throw away phones. Or just send a letter..Go lotech...55

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    Quote Originally Posted by LivinLOS View Post
    Maybe along with a nifty new tattoo on the inner arm ??
    Forehead prefered in most instances = 555

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    Quote Originally Posted by marc26 View Post
    i've always had your attitude also, and i still don't get too worked up over things like CCTV cameras and such
    i still believe that most things we are talking about won't effect law abiding citizens, i think it leads to other things like when the police seemed to be demanding entry in Boston manhunt, or even when passport control doesn't feel the need to staff more than 2 people in JFK when the same 2 planes land every single day at the same time
    they are basically saying what we need/want is irrelevant and we have no say

    but there has been a noticeable shift in our rights and it will only get worse so whereas before i wouldn't be too fussed over these things, i would vote or argue against most of them
    plus given the fact, these govt law agencies seem like buffoons and will just fcuk it up anyways
    Yeah any goverment would make a hash of an identification system for sure, so I don't know what the answer is.
    But I will say I still stand by treating any of these nutters like the dog that kills a neighbours sheep = no questions asked !!

  16. #16
    Senior Member Waharoa's Avatar
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    But imagine a society with no crime, no murders, no serial killers... what next? No mongering, no drunkenness... no extremes... no individualism...

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    Senior Member Coolhand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waharoa View Post
    But imagine a society with no crime, no murders, no serial killers... what next? No mongering, no drunkenness... no extremes... no individualism...
    of course - if society was made up of moral saints, then the most venial digression would become a crime.

  18. #18
    Senior Member dontpanic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivinLOS View Post
    Maybe along with a nifty new tattoo on the inner arm ??
    Don't forget the striped pyjamas. Governments already have plenty of information on these guys, like Who the fk granted American citizenship to those Boston bombers even though they were already on a watch list? Same same those nutcases that hacked Lee Rigby to death. Same same, Qatada. You think looking through his internet history is going to give you any more insight into his hatred for westerners?

    Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. For TERFOR see Dept of Homeland Security.

  19. #19
    Senior Member faultytowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by faultytowers View Post
    Edit:
    Wonder how long it took to find a suitable acronym for the task force.
    Tackling Extremism and Radicalisation Task Force (TERFOR)
    Slightly OT but there must be a whole business out there that spends vast amounts of time (and money !) thinking up acronyms that make sometimes unpopular subjects appear reasonable and appealing to the general population.

    There is the "USA Patriot Act" , you'd have to be "unpatriotic" not to support it as a patriot is "someone who feels a strong support for his or her country."

    Uniting (and) Strengthening America (by) Providing Appropriate Tools Required (to) Intercept (and) Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001.

    In my own field , hospitals , there is N.I.C.E :

    National Institute for Health and Care Excellence

    Although it has evolved over the years to cover best practice and ensure hospital standards are met , it was originally about cost effectiveness and money saving.

    NICE attempts to assess the cost-effectiveness of potential expenditures within the NHS to assess whether or not they represent 'better value' for money than treatments that would be neglected if the expenditure took place. It assesses the cost effectiveness of new treatments by analysing the cost and benefit of the proposed treatment relative to the next best treatment that is currently in use.
    Would it be looked on as good for the N.H.S if it was called N.A.S.T.Y ?

    National Association for Savings on Treating You !


    OK , back to how erosions of our hard won freedoms are good for us as they protect us from this era's bad bad bogeymen who are vilified when they use the same laws against their own people.

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