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Thread: Cameron speech

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    Senior Member billpay's Avatar
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    Cameron speech

    Just watched David Cameron's speech about ISIS. Kudos, much better than the mealy-mouth words just yesterday from Obama.
    The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up.

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    Senior Member geir's Avatar
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    Haven't heard the speeches, but it's to bad that we (the west) again have supplied this motherfuckers with weapons...................... what happened to learning curves????????
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    Senior Member PadMC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billpay View Post
    Just watched David Cameron's speech about ISIS. Kudos, much better than the mealy-mouth words just yesterday from Obama.
    Missed it myself. So whats the forward plan??

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    Senior Member Waharoa's Avatar
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    Don't normally say this but well done David Cameron. The thing is to execute whatever laws will be brought into effect there will need to be a certain level of evidence attained to be able to make that call. I don't know how they would do that.

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    Senior Member geir's Avatar
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    Evidence???? since when was evidence important for them to invade another country? Like Saddams chemical weapons 5555
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    Senior Member billpay's Avatar
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    Evidence?????....Gee, maybe beheading someone live on the internet seems like it may be evidence, you think?
    The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up.

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    Senior Member geir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billpay View Post
    Evidence?????....Gee, maybe beheading someone live on the internet seems like it may be evidence, you think?
    I agree on that, but every time they replace a madman in these countries, even worse people make their entrance. And they are killing each other with weapons supplied by us.
    For me personal I think it would be a better world without Islamists at all, but I guess we can't kill the whole region.
    Religion is a fucked up thing. When we got christianity forced on us, hundred of thousands of people was killed during the process. The arabs seem to have a mindset that is 1000 years behind ours, and it's not likely to change any time soon.
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    Senior Member Waharoa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geir View Post
    I agree on that, but every time they replace a madman in these countries, even worse people make their entrance. And they are killing each other with weapons supplied by us.
    For me personal I think it would be a better world without Islamists at all, but I guess we can't kill the whole region.
    Religion is a fucked up thing. When we got christianity forced on us, hundred of thousands of people was killed during the process. The arabs seem to have a mindset that is 1000 years behind ours, and it's not likely to change any time soon.
    Even if you removed all religions, you'd still have the 1% of screwed up people that need an excuse to vent their personal frustrations in life. Religion is just their vehicle... they'd find anther name for it and do the exact same stuff...

    The only things that have a chance of helping long term are education, less inequality and stronger governments. Good luck with that...
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    Senior Member nelsonone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waharoa View Post
    Even if you removed all religions, you'd still have the 1% of screwed up people that need an excuse to vent their personal frustrations in life. Religion is just their vehicle... they'd find anther name for it and do the exact same stuff...

    The only things that have a chance of helping long term are education, less inequality and stronger governments. Good luck with that...
    Gee..I'd go for a 99% reduction in war and violence if it was on offer

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    Senior Member Waharoa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nelsonone View Post
    Gee..I'd go for a 99% reduction in war and violence if it was on offer
    But that's the symptoms rather than the cause?

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    What a breath of fresh air that speech was. Finally a leader willing to express what most of us probably already know, and that is religious fanaticism is the root of this evil.
    Official speeches actually telling the truth along with recognition of this almost unsolveable problem is absolutely crucial in the west having any ability to possibly stop what has possibly already been allowed to become an unstoppable force.

    I agree with Waharoa's post in theory, but fundamentally, religion polarizes zealots and nut cases like no other cause. No amount of education, inequality (we already give more equality to any minority than the rest of our citizens and see how that is working) or any politically correct based plan will do anything other than render us further unable to stop what is now looking to be inevitable.
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    Senior Member Waharoa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homer View Post
    What a breath of fresh air that speech was. Finally a leader willing to express what most of us probably already know, and that is religious fanaticism is the root of this evil.
    Official speeches actually telling the truth along with recognition of this almost unsolveable problem is absolutely crucial in the west having any ability to possibly stop what has possibly already been allowed to become an unstoppable force.

    I agree with Waharoa's post in theory, but fundamentally, religion polarizes zealots and nut cases like no other cause. No amount of education, inequality (we already give more equality to any minority than the rest of our citizens and see how that is working) or any politically correct based plan will do anything other than render us further unable to stop what is now looking to be inevitable.
    But say in Gaza or Iraq at present. Is religion the real issue? Are they fighting over religion really? Or rather over a feeling of injustice? Religion is more like a catalyst for whatever is the root of the problem at the time? The extremists use religion as their excuse... but really, what is their primal motivation? Perceived injustices... whether over land, displaced people or simple oppression... or perceived aggression towards them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waharoa View Post
    But that's the symptoms rather than the cause?
    It's exactly the opposite. The willingness to accept claims without evidence and reason creates an environment ripe for generally good people to do any wicked thing.

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    Senior Member Waharoa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuhio View Post
    It's exactly the opposite. The willingness to accept claims without evidence and reason creates an environment ripe for generally good people to do any wicked thing.
    Yeah I can see where it can be a self-fulfilling symptom that becomes part of the cause. Recycling the problem... True.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waharoa View Post
    But say in Gaza or Iraq at present. Is religion the real issue? Are they fighting over religion really? Or rather over a feeling of injustice? Religion is more like a catalyst for whatever is the root of the problem at the time? The extremists use religion as their excuse... but really, what is their primal motivation? Perceived injustices... whether over land, displaced people or simple oppression... or perceived aggression towards them?
    Yes it is multifaceted without doubt and some of it - Gaza/Israel in particular is totally our own doing. It gave legs to the religious slant and probably 99% of what has now come after. But as you say, it then just became an ingrained hatred of the enemy - and using religion is an easy way to be able to point many fingers at many different societies that you may choose to attack, because they aren't of the same religion.

    The problems I believe (at least that are directly affecting the west) are however related to one particular religion so I don't think that part of it can be ignored.

    Fixing it...I don't think we ever will. Particularly with all of our constant meddling. We just need to hope like hell they don't get nukes from some piss poor weak country that we let have them...

    I always laughed that people thought humanity could sink so low as to end with a 1984 concept.

    I now think that is inevitable.

    You see we need "security" to get rid of this scourge. But we are now so obsessed with political correctness that the rights we demand everyone must have ensures that the 'security' will fail and only be effective on normal citizens - which will require ever increasing levels of 'security' so that we will one day look up and find we are looking at Big Brother.

    I've just depressed myself 555
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    Senior Member Dodger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nelsonone View Post
    Gee..I'd go for a 99% reduction in war and violence if it was on offer
    Gee said thanks for telling her that!!555555555555
    Custard should be a colour...cos I could then paint over the mess I've just made!!!

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    Senior Member Dodger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billpay View Post
    Evidence?????....Gee, maybe beheading someone live on the internet seems like it may be evidence, you think?
    Gee said this was massive falsehood and she did not behead anyone!!!!5555555555
    Custard should be a colour...cos I could then paint over the mess I've just made!!!

  19. #19
    Senior Member Waharoa's Avatar
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    ^Homer - There is already at least one Islamic state with nuclear weapons... the Islamic State of Pakistan.

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    Yes thanks for reminding me 555

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