Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 25
Like Tree13Likes

Thread: US race relations

  1. #1
    Senior Member kris-one's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1,803

    US race relations

    I don't wanna make a controversial thread but how the hell did that NY copper not get indicted on ANY charge. An illegal choke hold caught on video. Clearly hear the guy saying he can't breathe.He didn't have a weapon or wasn't appearing to be acting aggressively. I mean how much evidence do you need to at least indict? You can perhaps give the benefit of the doubt to the police man in Ferguson. But surely not this one in NY.




  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    911
    Dead right Kris-one

    An appalling case. All over selling single cigarettes.
    Idiot & bullying cops who attacked instead of talking and de escalating the situation and then stood by and offered no assistance. Totally unprofessional.
    They need to be charged and made to defend their actions.

    Ferguson was a different scenario, the officer was attacked.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Pablo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    4,014
    I think the title of your thread here is a bit questionable.

    I don't believe that race had anything to do with either of the cases mentioned.

    They've only become racially charged after the president, attorney general, and their other mouthpieces jumped in with the rhetoric.

    I think it's ludicrous to be wasting police assets on such mundane crimes (selling untaxed cig's). But then, tobacco tax must be a big money maker for the city @ $6 tax added to every pack of ciggies! Don't mess with the income generating mechanism of socialist rulers!

    Saying that though, I also believe that the cops in NYC were using pretty much "excessive" force in trying to arrest the petty peddler. Especially since "chokeholds" have been outlawed by the NYPD for some years. With that in mind, I agree that maybe an indictment and closer court scrutiny should have been done.

    But, the ranking officer there was a black female cop who did nothing but watch it unfold. Race didn't have anything to do with it IMO.

  4. #4
    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Vancouver BC
    Posts
    10,479
    I think it is very naive to say race had nothing to do with it....
    Race has everything to do with it.
    Now, by saying that......I don't mean as so black and white(excuse the pun)

    I am so glad Kris brought this subject up. It is one of the subjects I am most fascinated about on so many levels...

    And I feel I have a lot of experience. Living and working in these black neighborhoods in NYC.

    It really is a different world in those hoods and unless you experience 1st hand, you will never understand it.
    There is such tension.....such disrespect on both sides that it really us a chicken and an egg situation...
    Who started it.....why does it keep going on.....who is to blame ?

    Another reason I feel I am pretty qualified to speak on this is I am white guy, who knows those areas and would say exactly what I say in this thread to any black person standing next to me.

    Blacks have to do a better job in those hoods raising their kids, respecting each other and respecting themselves before we even get into if they should respect the police.

    The police. Again, something I am pretty close to coming from a cop family. No matter how much they want to dress like commandos...... I truly believe many police in US are not trained well enough. My brother was a cop, my best friend who I lived with when he became a NYPD cop......I honestly believe they didn't know how to handle any of these situations better than I would......they learn the basics.


    My conclusion after all that......I do think blacks in a lot of those neighborhoods need to take responsibility for themselves and their community but man.......as much as you may think they have a "poor me" attitude...... it is getting kind of hard not to sympathize with them

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Thailand
    Posts
    2,267
    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo View Post
    They've only become racially charged after the president, attorney general, and their other mouthpieces jumped in with the rhetoric.
    Very much unlike you, you are giving the president too much credit. It became racially charged because it was yet another example of police brutality against a coloured man, and because coloured people (and many other) perceived it to be unjust. Not because the president said something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo View Post
    Race didn't have anything to do with it IMO.
    You may very well be right but that it was not how it is perceived. Especially after the other recent cases.

  6. #6
    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Vancouver BC
    Posts
    10,479
    I think race had everything to do with both situations

    But if I had to judge them.....
    Michael Brown was in the wrong(but didn't deserve to die)
    Eric Garner was murdered by police

  7. #7
    Senior Member Pablo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    4,014
    Objections noted....

  8. #8
    Senior Member slampay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1,629
    Follow the money. Several multi-millionaires and a billionaire in this vid.

    This is 1988, the POTUS was a first year student at Harvard.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h2YgZX9Thm0

    555
    Last edited by slampay; 5th December 2014 at 12:24.
    A woman won The Nobel Peace Prize? Must have been a pretty good sandwich.

  9. #9
    Senior Member slampay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1,629
    Every school child should read "12 years a slave"..mandatory.

    Not the movie, the book.
    http://www.amazon.com/12-Years-Slave.../dp/B00G4Q3KOC
    Last edited by slampay; 5th December 2014 at 12:31.
    A woman won The Nobel Peace Prize? Must have been a pretty good sandwich.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Thin White Duke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Afrique du Sud
    Posts
    2,891
    It just seems to me that whenever 'race' is bought up as being the possible cause of tensions......there is often a major pullback....outrage and denial.

    In reality it is the festering boil beneath the surface.

    Not something that just disappears magically in a few years while it has been going on for centuries.

  11. #11
    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Vancouver BC
    Posts
    10,479
    Quote Originally Posted by Thin White Duke View Post
    It just seems to me that whenever 'race' is bought up as being the possible cause of tensions......there is often a major pullback....outrage and denial.

    In reality it is the festering boil beneath the surface.

    Not something that just disappears magically in a few years while it has been going on for centuries.
    You are right but whenever it is brought up it is solely blamed on the whites
    nd again.....I do think blacks get an absolute shit deal in the US.....they really do.
    But, for lack of better terms, they have to do better as a community.
    One thing you never see much of, is blacks calling each other out no matter how wrong they are in a situation

    Look at Michael Brown. Sorry but the video of him going after the shop owner is pretty damming.You can't if ignore his actions in that video that happened right before and what his actions might have been with the cop......you can't. That is not saying he was 100% aggressive with the cop and it definitely not saying he deserved to be shot at 10-15 times( this is where the bad training comes in) but without video of what happened in the Brown situation you can't ignore the store video and that is exactly what a lot of blacks did.

    Again......it is a major chicken and egg scenario. Blacks get a shit deal in the US but their community leaders, black journalists need to do a better job calling them out


    I could go on and on I am so passionate about this and I really do see both sides.
    Dkdude likes this.

  12. #12
    Senior Member sundancekid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,142
    @ M26. Yes, it is surely a complex issue. Guys like Pablo is just going to blame Obama in any case, so not really interesting to listen to anymore.

    I mean, of course race is an issue here. My aunt visited our relatives in North Dakota recently, and she’s actually on the far conservative side in Norwegian politics. But at the end of the stay, she couldn’t even stand being in the same room as them. At the dinner table, it was all “Obama this – Obama that”. And with blatantly racist overtones. She just left disgusted. Far worse than under Clinton even. In her words.

    What you say about “community leaders” is interesting though. I kind of feel there’s a parallel to the Muslim issue. Really, no direct comparison intended, but these leaders IMO are sometimes too quick to raise the “victimization card” rather than addressing some real issues and faults with their own communities as well. However much that card is justified historically, you should be careful not overplaying it either.

  13. #13
    Senior Member tnlawyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    2,629
    I agree that the situation in NY warranted an indictment of some sort and further discovery during a subsequent trial. I also agree with M26 and others who say that blacks have a little bit tougher road to walk than non-blacks (although I wouldn't go so far as to say they get a "shit deal"). And I also agree that the victim card gets pulled way too often. It makes people not take the legitimate situations as seriously as they should.

    And M26 is 100% right about blacks needing to get their shit together. The number of kids born out of wedlock is fucking staggering. The black on black crime is out of control. But everytime someone brings it up, they're shouted down as being a racist (or an Uncle Tom if they happen to be black). Love this clip from Charles Barkley.


  14. #14
    Senior Member sundancekid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,142
    Quote Originally Posted by tnlawyer View Post
    The number of kids born out of wedlock is fucking staggering. The black on black crime is out of control. But everytime someone brings it up, they're shouted down as being a racist (or an Uncle Tom if they happen to be black).
    Seriously, you're bringing up the "bastard card"? Do you know the wedlock-ratio-difference between Europe and the US? And should we start arguing which society is "better" in terms of crime, poverty etc. etc?

  15. #15
    Senior Member tnlawyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    2,629
    Quote Originally Posted by sundancekid View Post
    Seriously, you're bringing up the "bastard card"? Do you know the wedlock-ratio-difference between Europe and the US? And should we start arguing which society is "better" in terms of crime, poverty etc. etc?
    I think there's a correlation there, and I'm not the only one. Plenty of black leaders are saying the same thing. Surely you're not suggesting that having a mother and a father at home isn't better for the kids than just having a mother and no father?

    And no offense intended, but I don't care about Europe. I care about my family, my city, my state, my country in that exact order.

  16. #16
    Senior Member sundancekid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,142
    Quote Originally Posted by tnlawyer View Post
    I think there's a correlation there, and I'm not the only one. Plenty of black leaders are saying the same thing. Surely you're not suggesting that having a mother and a father at home isn't better for the kids than just having a mother and no father?

    And no offense intended, but I don't care about Europe. I care about my family, my city, my state, my country in that exact order.
    Then what exactly is the perceived correlation? More crime and poverty with more bastards? The result is too mixed to give any answers of course. With the Scandinavians at the top (yeah...) and Japan at the bottom of the bastard-scale. And both having low crime and poverty rates.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._countries.gif

    I kind of agree that "all life is local". But then don't bother with all these generalizations either...
    Last edited by sundancekid; 5th December 2014 at 23:43.

  17. #17
    Senior Member sundancekid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,142
    Aj, that graph got screwed up. But basically showed the percentage of birth to unmarried women exploding in the European countries since 1980. Above 50% currently. Kind of in the middle for the US, and then at the other extreme and for Japan (2%).

    So yes, I’d be very interested to know exactly what you would infer from those numbers alone.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Thin White Duke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Afrique du Sud
    Posts
    2,891
    An interesting thing to note is the shocking racism against white's when they are in the minority.....here in Africa.Even in Thailand against 'farangs'.

    A bit off topic 'cos this thread is about the States but just to point out how endemic and widespread....from all sides it is.....why bother denying it.
    The most interesting thing in this case is that in the US the minorities actually got 'their guy' into power.
    Now that shows an advancement over all other Nations imo for better or worse.
    slampay and Waharoa like this.

  19. #19
    Senior Member tnlawyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    2,629
    Quote Originally Posted by sundancekid View Post
    Then what exactly is the perceived correlation? More crime and poverty with more bastards? The result is too mixed to give any answers of course. With the Scandinavians at the top (yeah...) and Japan at the bottom of the bastard-scale. And both having low crime and poverty rates.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._countries.gif

    I kind of agree that "all life is local". But then don't bother with all these generalizations either...

    No doubt that poverty ties into in, and poverty is related to crime. Don't you think that single parent households are more likely to live in poverty than "traditional" households? Couple the poverty with less parental oversight and direction (the involved parent is trying to scrape together a living), a poorer education (tough for the involved parent to push the kids to do well in school when they're working all the time) and I think there is strong circumstantial evidence that it leads to high crime rates. And this isn't just for blacks. I think it applies to kids of any ethnicity here in the US. My initial statement was pointing out the huge difference in the percentage of black kids being raised in single parent households versus non-blacks. And it's a massive difference. Something like 70% versus 25%.

    It's impossible to prove definitively either way as there are just too many variables involved. I just happen to believe that kids raised in single parent households are more likely to grow up in poverty, with an inferior education, and ending up involved in drugs/crime. Not saying it's the case with every kid, but the deck is definitely stacked against them.
    TLandHim likes this.

  20. #20
    Senior Member sundancekid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,142
    ... then again, there's a difference between wedlock and single-parenting as well. Right?

    And dare I ask, do you believe a kid would be better off with a single black mom, than with say two white dads?
    Last edited by sundancekid; 6th December 2014 at 02:08.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •