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Thread: UK Politics

  1. #1
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    UK Politics

    So we're into the runup to a general election here and I thought it might be interesting to kick the subject around a bit.

    I said in one of the other threads that I thought we were in for a solid conservative majority at this election but I can't see that now. I think it more likely that we will see a coalition of one form or another. I actually think it's too close to call at this stage but I hope that as we see the various manifestos published over the coming weeks it will become a bit more clear cut.

    Personally, I'm hoping for more of the same. I can't believe that there are enough idiots in the country to put Ed Milliband into power so I'm fully expecting some sort of conservative led coalition. I'm also hoping that Farage and his bunch of closet racists will be pushed to the margins where they belong.

    My guess is that the conservative manifesto will include a firm commitment to hold an in/out referendum on Europe and something very serious on immigration which would also involve a big re-negotiation with the EU in regard to what powers are held here and what we are prepared to let Europe dictate.

    It will be interesting to see what a coalition looks like. Cameron fired some surprising early shots by insisting that the green party be involved in any TV debates; he's already scratching around for allies.

    I also think it's pretty clear that Clegg and the Lib Dems will feel the wrath of the electorate and be slaughtered. Seems a shame to me that the first leader that took them into government in almost a century has been so villified. Maybe he should have kept his promise about tuition fees?

    Interesting times ahead for sure.

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    Senior Member kris-one's Avatar
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    The TV stations now rejigged the format and the Greens are in. Now suddenly DC feels sorry for the Northern Irish parties and is demanding that they must get a platform and if they are not included he's not doing it either. Once they kowtow to his latest demand I wouldn't be surprised if he says hes still not going to participate unless the Monster Raving Loonies are included too. I think that is the level of his desire to not partake in these debates. If he really has to he's going to make sure they are useless by having a debate between 10 people which shields the potential for Milliband to throw a surprise and come across better than the majority expect. That's the problem I think, DC is a PR man, he *should* clean the floor with Milliband. But that also means if he comes across as not having won, or even if its close he will be castigated for it. The opposite is true for Milliband. He may come across not as idiotic as most people think he is and therefore he has a lot less to lose in these debates than Cameron. That's why I think Cameron will get his way in the end. The debates will go ahead but they will be so cumbersome and time pressured to give all parties a voice they will prove pointless as a tool for voters to use.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member kris-one's Avatar
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    It would be interesting too as to wherever Cameron remains leader if the Conservatives are forced into a coalition. That would be two elections where he would have failed to win a majority where when really he should have been able to walk them both considering who he is up against.




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    Senior Member Waharoa's Avatar
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    Cameron is also more popular than his party at the moment so he has a lot to lose in these debates. Clegg was the best debater last time... and may make up lost ground... especially if only 3 or 4 of them... I suspect Cameron may well ask for a member of the Muslim Council of Britain to participate to occupy Farage...

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    Senior Member Thin White Duke's Avatar
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    If Cameron is not the leader of the Conservatives who would be?

    Boris Johnson?

    What do you guys think of him?

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    Boris Johnson, to me, is living proof that Southerners do have a sense of humour. I'm sure he's a very intelligent guy but he hasn't proved it so far when he's opened his mouth in public. He's the archetypal braying public school boy and comes across as a complete separatist in the very worst conservative tradition.

    I really don't see anyone else there but Cameron for the Conservatives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waharoa View Post
    Cameron is also more popular than his party at the moment so he has a lot to lose in these debates. Clegg was the best debater last time... and may make up lost ground... especially if only 3 or 4 of them... I suspect Cameron may well ask for a member of the Muslim Council of Britain to participate to occupy Farage...
    Agree completely. There is no win for Cameron in these debates so his best strategy is to make them as irrelevant as possible. The biggest winner is likely to be Farrage because he is very sharp and he does strike a chord with a lot of people.

    I think the conservative manifesto will see them taking the wind out of UKIPs sails and Cameron really doesn't need Farrage wiping the floor with him on live TV.

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    Senior Member Thin White Duke's Avatar
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    From an outsiders perspective and just going on the personalities/charisma

    Ed Milliband doesn't really come across well to me......maybe his brother would have been a better choice.

    Farage is a very good orator....and as you say quite sharp.

    I had a lot of respect for Tony Blair but reckon he damaged himself and legacy quite substantially with the whole Iraq debacle.....but as a personality he was streets ahead of anyone in the picture now I would say.

    Quite a shame he blew it in the end.

    Gordon Brown was a disaster.

    Cameron initially was good but he now seems a bit ungenuine and privileged.

    I quite like Nick Clegg but perhaps a bit too goody two shoes.Needs a scandal or two.

    British politics is quite fascinating........I always liked the Francis Urquhart character from A House of Cards TV series.

    I would probably vote for him on personality alone.

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    Blair became despised in the end, Iraq was a disaster and he lied and cheated so he could go on Bush's crusade. I'm amazed he's working as an envoy for the UN, they should be chrging the bastard with war crimes.

    For me, Cameron / Osbourne are our best bet for stability and I want them to stay. They do come across as a pair of braying yahoos but the thought of a lurch to the left and all the profligate spending that would go with it scares me.

    I do feel sorry for Clegg but his voters seem to think he sold his soul for power; he's going to get slaughtered.

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    Senior Member Waharoa's Avatar
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    If the Lib Dems had not been part of the coalition (an almost silent partner) they would be in a pretty strong position now... it's been a disaster for them. It's made Clegg impotent, whereas he would probably look like the best leader now had he remained in opposition... what chance a Conservative/UKIP coalition...

    Ed Milliband will be gone after this election I suspect...

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    What about William Hague?

    Retiring cos he can't get the top job?

    Could be quite good as a PM given the chance no?

  12. #12
    Senior Member Waharoa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thin White Duke View Post
    What about William Hague?

    Retiring cos he can't get the top job?

    Could be quite good as a PM given the chance no?
    Nooo. He had his chance years ago to be PM and lost badly against Blair in 2001.

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    I thought Hague committed career suicide by taking that job. He was totally un-prepared for the position and the party were pretty much un-electable at the time so whoever stood for the conservatives was really being hung out to dry.

    I think he comes across quite well now but he is forever tainted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waharoa View Post
    If the Lib Dems had not been part of the coalition (an almost silent partner) they would be in a pretty strong position now... it's been a disaster for them. It's made Clegg impotent, whereas he would probably look like the best leader now had he remained in opposition... what chance a Conservative/UKIP coalition...

    Ed Milliband will be gone after this election I suspect...
    But if he hadn't taken the coalition position then they would be looking at exactly the same scenario now wouldn't they? He wouldn't have a lot of choice other than to take it and we know how it ends because he's already done it. He should have been stronger at the start and made sure he could deliver one of his marquee promises. The trouble there of course is that he was throwing brickbats around making promises he was never going to have to keep, like tuition fees, but then found himself in a position where people expected him to do what he had said he would and he couldn't deliver.

    I think there is zero chance of a UKIP/Conservative coalition. I think it more likely a conservative led coalition with some of the very marginal players like the greens and maybe even the Lib Dems back for another go.

    I'm a bit surprised Labour stuck with Milliband. He's such a wet blanket and they had the opportunity to replace him last year and didn't, I think they will regret that ( I suspect a lot already regret it ) and agree completely that he will be dumped post-election.

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    Senior Member kris-one's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve@thaib View Post
    Blair became despised in the end, Iraq was a disaster and he lied and cheated so he could go on Bush's crusade. I'm amazed he's working as an envoy for the UN, they should be chrging the bastard with war crimes.

    For me, Cameron / Osbourne are our best bet for stability and I want them to stay. They do come across as a pair of braying yahoos but the thought of a lurch to the left and all the profligate spending that would go with it scares me.

    I do feel sorry for Clegg but his voters seem to think he sold his soul for power; he's going to get slaughtered.
    When I was at university in Sheffield in 2010 Nick Clegg was our MP. Sheffield has a huge student population, two massive universities and they were out in force. Polling station lines around the block and hours wait. Majority voting for Clegg as he promised not to raise tuition fees. I wouldn't be surprised if they will be out in force again and the students hold the swing vote and he may not even get elected as an MP this time.




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    Senior Member kris-one's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waharoa View Post
    Nooo. He had his chance years ago to be PM and lost badly against Blair in 2001.
    That and wearing a dodgy baseball cap and rumors he was a gay too. Small, bald, awful fashion sense and potentially gay ain't gonna get you elected
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  17. #17
    Senior Member kris-one's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve@thaib View Post
    For me, Cameron / Osbourne are our best bet for stability and I want them to stay. They do come across as a pair of braying yahoos but the thought of a lurch to the left and all the profligate spending that would go with it scares me.
    One problem is that Cameron is going to have to lurch to the right to get elected with a majority. A lurch either way is scary IMO.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kris-one View Post
    When I was at university in Sheffield in 2010 Nick Clegg was our MP. Sheffield has a huge student population, two massive universities and they were out in force. Polling station lines around the block and hours wait. Majority voting for Clegg as he promised not to raise tuition fees. I wouldn't be surprised if they will be out in force again and the students hold the swing vote and he may not even get elected as an MP this time.
    That will be interesting to watch, I hadn't realised that had happened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris-one View Post
    One problem is that Cameron is going to have to lurch to the right to get elected with a majority. A lurch either way is scary IMO.
    Agree, I really don't want to see any rabid right wingers so a big lurch either way is not welcome. I think they will get away with stealing UKIPs clothes in a small way with a committment on immigration and taking our borders back. They will need to repatriate some powers to do that and it ties in with an in/out referendum, my guess is that's what we will see.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Thin White Duke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kris-one View Post
    That and wearing a dodgy baseball cap and rumors he was a gay too. Small, bald, awful fashion sense and potentially gay ain't gonna get you elected
    Churchill was bald......and a bit strange

    He seemed to do ok.

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