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Thread: The house dream...

  1. #1
    Senior Member WarProfiteer's Avatar
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    The house dream...

    I guess this notion just gets ingrained over a decade or two of conditioning, but most of the girls I've known all have this dream of building their parents a lovely new home. The sad part is, as most of us know, Thai parents (esp the poorer ones) tend to treat their kids like shit. I dont get it. If someone crapped on me for 20+ years, I certainly wouldnt be dreaming of building them a huge modern house.

    This came up yesterday as the she-wok keeps the caps of my Oishi tea's I drink from 7-11. I ask what the prize is. She says it's a million baht. So I ask what she would do if she won a million baht. First thing out of her mouth? I'd build my parent's a nice new house.

    *facepalm.gif*

    Let's see, these would be the same parents that are lifelong lao khao drunks, leeched off you and lied to you at every turn for years and years, then supported your siblings as they cheated you and stole from you- simply because they were your older siblings... and you want to build a nice home for these people? And worse, it's the very first damn thing you think of when I ask you to imagine winning money? Not "I'd use it to keep going to school" or "I'd buy some gold so I'd have something for emergencies" or even "I'd buy my own motorbike"... the very first thing you blurt out is "buy my mom and dad a nice home"???

    Bear in mind, they already have a very typical Issan style home thanks to her... concrete block, running water, electric, new roof, 5 rooms total... and that this is far better than they have ever lived. Of course, buying dad a truck and mom a motorbike was also part of the deal. So she's already given them the home they live in and the vehicles they drive and she sends money every month... yet she still dreams of getting them a better house.

    As an extreme example, the she-wok has a friend, M, who was given up by both parents as neither wanted the burden of a baby when they split up shortly after she was born. So M was primarily raised by the neighbors, though she did occasionally do stints with both the father (until his new wife took a knife to M's face in a drunken rage), and the mother (until she found a new boyfriend that didnt want a kid around). So she was basically shuffled around all of her life, crapped on, treated like an un-welcome guest by the neighbors, outright abused viciously at some points, and yet... she too wants to build mom a nice house someday. Mom wouldnt even talk to her for years and even now only talks to her to get money from her. It just amazes me, this house building notion.

    Then again, maybe there's more than one reason they call it amazing Thailand...
    Last edited by WarProfiteer; 15th May 2013 at 08:12.

  2. #2
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    MAybe some want to build the thing in the hope that one day the roof will collapse....555

  3. #3
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    But its the status face gained for being a good child.. Its the merit gained for karma..

    And its an investment kinda..

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    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
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    i think Ao gained a ton of perspective when she came and lived in Canada and saw how much parents care for their kids. now in the west, it gets a bit too much, i believe. but at least the love is very much centered on the children
    seeing how my sister's and my friends really focus on their kids really made her think about how it is in Thailand
    so i think it gave her the idea that she does enough and if that isn't good enough, so be it
    she still wants to buy a house, but i think it is more for a sense of accomplishment and something she can totally grasp as a reality.

    her mom gets 15k/mo and i would say most of that goes to the house(7-8k/mo w/ electric) and my stepson expenses( food, school money) and she works for her
    and her mom doesn't make a peep about more. she seems happy with the best house she ever lived in

  5. #5
    Senior Member dontpanic's Avatar
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    If you switch the scenario around to western parents winning some money, wouldn't a lot of them give a lot of it to their kids? Even the ones that'll spend it on beer and gambling?

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    Senior Member Dodger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dontpanic View Post
    If you switch the scenario around to western parents winning some money, wouldn't a lot of them give a lot of it to their kids? Even the ones that'll spend it on beer and gambling?
    Not sure what your point is here??? because if this happened here the eastern parents would do exactly the same!!

  7. #7
    Senior Member dontpanic's Avatar
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    Western parents give to their kids which they consider normal.

    Thai's give to their parents which they consider normal. Simples.

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    Senior Member Geespot's Avatar
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    Don't know if WP has read the book Thailand Fever; it gives some insight into the thinking of Thai women

    No matter how often their parents shit on them; they still want to give them everything as much as possible, this extends to wider family too

    I'm still at odds that treating your GF/Wife as some kind of improvement project is the right way to go. IMO they will just play lip service to it anyway to avoid conflict (read Thailand Fever) and tell you what you want to hear (read Thailand Fever) You could spend a whole lot of energy thinking you have improved someone but not knowing whether you really have or haven't. In all of this whose to say the western way is best? All I can see is a whole bunch of fucked up people trying to improve themselves stressed out and on prozac

    Kinda like role reversal where western women are forever trying to turn their BF's/Husbands into something else and then complain they aren't the man they fell in love with 555555555

    I'm probably gonna cop some shit for this post!!!!
    Dkdude and junkhouse like this.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Dodger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dontpanic View Post
    If you switch the scenario around to western parents winning some money, wouldn't a lot of them give a lot of it to their kids? Even the ones that'll spend it on beer and gambling?
    Quote Originally Posted by dontpanic View Post
    Western parents give to their kids which they consider normal.

    Thai's give to their parents which they consider normal. Simples.
    Sorry DP I read in your first post about western parent WINNING SOME MONEY, I was thinking well so would eastern parents if they WON SOME MONEY.

    Western parents give to their children when they die, which they think is normal, when by the time most western children inherit from their parents, they have already bought their own home. Western children provide an old age home for their parents, which is somewhat similar, not the same, as eastern girls hoping one day to be able to buy a home for their parents, which incidentally is a longish term investment for themselves? as they to will inherit it when they die.

    All in all, not to dissimilar? but I do appreciate also differences, but maybe not so dissimilar when looked at in this light?

  10. #10
    Senior Member dontpanic's Avatar
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    Yeh there are similarities just roles reversed a bit, I have no experience with dealing with TG's families other than what I read on forums like this. I don't know if the parents like Kev describes would give any money to their kids if their numbers came in on the Thai lotto.

    Western kids do take advantage of their parents too long before they're in the ground, lots have gotten loans for houses which they can never pay back from their parents and I see grandparents being roundly abused for providing free creche services cos the parents have to work to pay their humongous debts.

    Same same but different maybe?

  11. #11
    Senior Member WarProfiteer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geespot View Post
    Don't know if WP has read the book Thailand Fever; it gives some insight into the thinking of Thai women
    I've read it. A few times actually. It's decent to go back every 6 months and get a reminder.

    While I agree that one will often be told what they want to hear, I say the alternative to trying to get them to improve themselves is to not try... then if/when things fall apart, you're basically leaving someone a few years older but in the same crap life situation you found them in. It's just a choice one makes... right or wrong, the gal plays along or really tries, it's a choice ya make based on what you think is best... for me, the right choice is to feel like I tried to help them better themselves. Even if their real mindset didnt change, if they now have certificates from schools or other credentials that they worked on while you were together, at least they now have that to attempt to open some doors with and earn a little more.

    With my particular situation, the she-wok is flourishing in school, loves it, brings home nothing but very high marks and even has a plan for where she wants to go with it all- a plan that I didn't come up with at all, just something she's pieced together over the last 6-8 months. So, she isnt the mindless stupid Issan girl that thinks learning is too hard, or says shit like "you tink too mutt"... I think that is something that has genuinely changed with her. She consciously thought about her life, where it was going, how she was doing things day-to-day, decided she wanted to change it, started working on her education (formal school and English), then came up with a long range plan to fix her abysmal choices in the real job market (nursing school + english mastery, hopefully leading to a job in a hospital that caters to westerners). So, she's night and day from the girl I first met 2 years ago that totally lived in the moment and never thought ahead about any single thing, and figured her life was just her life and she wasnt "lucky" enough to have been given a better one.

    But on the flip side, all of my talks about how 'we teach people how to treat us', what's acceptable behavior from friends and family and what isnt, forgiveness being somewhat earned, sobriety being proved over time, a truly "changed" person shows you they changed by their actions... all of it... man, seems like it went to deaf ears. First money she gets, "I want to build my parents a nicer house!"... *cringe*... some shit just cannot be overcome with reasoning.
    Last edited by WarProfiteer; 15th May 2013 at 20:29.

  12. #12
    Senior Member WarProfiteer's Avatar
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    Also, to quickly cover a valid point raised above... some of these girls are indeed angling for the new house for mom and dad to someday really be the owner/occupier of said house. Fine. I can somewhat understand that... dual purpose... get some face by supposedly buying it for dear ol mum, then some day in the not too distant future it comes back to them and they now have a modern, nice house to live in the rest of their lives.

    In my particular situation though, the she-wok says "I've lived in Bangkok, and I've lived with you in Phuket, and now we've lived in Chiang Mai for more than one and a half years... we went to Singapore, we went to Malaysia twice, we went to Laos... now when I go back to my small town in Issan, I only feel sorry for the people that never left. They dont understand anything but that small town. I could never live there again. I dont even like it if I visit for more than 3 or 4 days."

    So, she supposedly isnt interested in a house in the sticks of Roi Et for herself... she says even if I left her, she'd want to stay in Chiang Mai... says the people are nicer here and she thinks after going to Chiang Mai Univ, she wants to try for a job at Ram Hospital, known locally as 'the place the sick farangs go'...

    No future Issan plans for her... though again, I could just be getting the 'tell them what they want to hear' routine...
    Last edited by WarProfiteer; 15th May 2013 at 20:27.

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    Kreng jai is a very difficult concept for us to get our heads around.

    It seems far more than the " do unto others..." creed.

    Most TGs I know want to build a house for themselves - perhaps parents now but definitely theirs later when their older BFs pop their fluffer valve.
    So - perhaps satisfying a "debt owed at/by birth" and combining it with an investment for the future? (on land that has to stay in the family?)

    But - you don't seem to see the same "birth guilt/debt owed" displayed by the sons? (particularly in the "lao Khao lazy" families).

    So maybe Up to Them is the way to go as we'll never fully understand this?
    Last edited by Evilbaz; 15th May 2013 at 20:47.

  14. #14
    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
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    without over thinking it or judging it

    i just think it is an attainable goal/dream
    and if they buy the house and can stay away from using it as collateral as loans than it is a tangible asset they now have and that money can't be asked for borrow from family

    how many of us were proud of ourselves when we bought our 1st car or 1st house

  15. #15
    Senior Member Loop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarProfiteer View Post
    she says even if I left her, she'd want to stay in Chiang Mai... says the people are nicer here
    Common observation amongst Thais and farangs!

  16. #16
    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodger View Post
    Sorry DP I read in your first post about western parent WINNING SOME MONEY, I was thinking well so would eastern parents if they WON SOME MONEY.

    Western parents give to their children when they die, which they think is normal, when by the time most western children inherit from their parents, they have already bought their own home. Western children provide an old age home for their parents, which is somewhat similar, not the same, as eastern girls hoping one day to be able to buy a home for their parents, which incidentally is a longish term investment for themselves? as they to will inherit it when they die.

    All in all, not to dissimilar? but I do appreciate also differences, but maybe not so dissimilar when looked at in this light?
    i think we have to differentiate also between the poorer demographic that we are mostly involved with vs the middle class/more wealthy thais
    because i see absolutely no difference between how middle class or upper middle class families act from western families. they financially support their kids

  17. #17
    Member alfie's Avatar
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    Have you tried looking on buildmeahouse.com ?

  18. #18
    Senior Member WarProfiteer's Avatar
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    ^Nope. As I told her, building the parents a house is not something I would ever be remotely interested in. If she wins the lottery, she's free to do it as that's her money... but truthfully, she doesnt even play the lottery.

    The main problem I have with "born indebted to mom & dad for bringing you into the world" system is that from what I have seen, this imaginary debt can never truly be satisfied. Even if a zillion dollar house was bought/built in the sticks, it would not stop them from asking for the next thing they felt they wanted. And as Baz rightly points out, how many sons feel this "life debt"?

  19. #19
    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geespot View Post
    Don't know if WP has read the book Thailand Fever; it gives some insight into the thinking of Thai women

    No matter how often their parents shit on them; they still want to give them everything as much as possible, this extends to wider family too

    I'm still at odds that treating your GF/Wife as some kind of improvement project is the right way to go. IMO they will just play lip service to it anyway to avoid conflict (read Thailand Fever) and tell you what you want to hear (read Thailand Fever) You could spend a whole lot of energy thinking you have improved someone but not knowing whether you really have or haven't. In all of this whose to say the western way is best? All I can see is a whole bunch of fucked up people trying to improve themselves stressed out and on prozac

    Kinda like role reversal where western women are forever trying to turn their BF's/Husbands into something else and then complain they aren't the man they fell in love with 555555555

    I'm probably gonna cop some shit for this post!!!!
    i think if they won the lottery or don't work and have their husband provide everything, a TG would surely want to give her family everything
    but believe me, once they actually start working for their money, they are less liberal with what they give out
    if my wife had all the money in the world, she give her mom anything she wants, but since she doesn't she gives her what she feels is more than enough

    as for trying to "improve someone"
    i guess that is personal preference on what you want out of a relationship

    i think it is sort of a two-fold issue:
    1st is a selfish issue. i just have no desire to be in a relationship with an unproductive person. they don't have to be rocket scientists, but if they aren't raising a young chld, i want her out doing something. i also do want to expose them to more worldly view of things because i have zero desire to be in a relationship and just talk about what we ate that day or some inane conversation about some trivial crap going on in Thailand

    2nd is for them, not in any order. encouraging them to work, encouraging them to further their education absolutely, without a doubt, gives them more confidence, gives them more pride. if Ao had the necessary education, i would 100% encourage some sort of schooling for a trade, regardless if it meant me having to assume most/all the financial obligations she now takes care of
    Last edited by marc26; 15th May 2013 at 22:46.

  20. #20
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    If a TG came into a shed load of money what else could she do but spend it on her parents?
    Look at the alternatives:

    Gambling?
    Partying and spending?
    Planning for the future? Give me a fecking break....Read the following...
    Family/Village/Land/Gold

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