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Thread: ED Visaq changes.. unnofficial..

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    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    ED Visaq changes.. unnofficial..

    My school will be informing students shortly that there is a new policy affecting visa's where students will now be required to attend 5 days/week, 2 hours/day. The policy change announcement comes from the Chiang Mai Educational Service Area and Chiang Mai Immigration Bureau, but I assume this will roll out across other areas too.

    Note that this is not the increase from 1 year ago. It already increased 1 year ago from 4 hours/week to 8 hours/week in some schools, with some schools able to do 6 hours/week. (not sure why!)
    They haven't officially announced it yet, I just know about it because I'm helping them with the translation of the announcement to English.
    another turn of the screw.

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    Senior Member NeedHoliday's Avatar
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    I've just finished with my ED visa in Phuket, but can at least confirm technically you were meant to do 8 hours per week (4x2hrs), and the school even listed that on my visa/extension documentation - yet we only had to attend 2 days. So I expect that was just some breathing room and could now be possibly enforced and carried out by those schools wanting to remain "legal" (nail in the coffin for some schools I bet).

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    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Senior Member soupdragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivinLOS View Post
    Is there any evidence that this visa is being abused like the normal Ed visa ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by soupdragon View Post
    Is there any evidence that this visa is being abused like the normal Ed visa ?
    How would you abuse it if there is no clear rules for attending?

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    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soupdragon View Post
    Is there any evidence that this visa is being abused like the normal Ed visa ?
    Define abused.. you can pay, get your 1 year ED extension.. aaaaand.. thanks..

    Its not abuse when you can make up the rules.

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    Senior Member faultytowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivinLOS View Post
    Define abused.. you can pay, get your 1 year ED extension.. aaaaand.. thanks..

    Its not abuse when you can make up the rules.
    Was it abuse when you could send your passport "on holiday" ? It's funny how the rule bending was OK when it suited but is somehow all wrong when it can be used against 'the junta' !

  8. #8
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by faultytowers View Post
    Was it abuse when you could send your passport "on holiday" ? It's funny how the rule bending was OK when it suited but is somehow all wrong when it can be used against 'the junta' !
    Yes clearly it was.. I am not argueing against the rule breaking, I dont have any issue with anyone paying thier money for this visa.. The issue is who is 'issueing' them, not recieiving them, surely your not unab;le to see the difference ??

    The simple (and I would think obvious point here) is the military, who pushed the civilian government out for being allegedly corrupt, is simply taking over streams of corruption for thier own pockets. In plain sight and without even hiding it.. I said all along its only about who benefits, if the military benefit they dont mind. As they write the rules, they make it so they are not even technically breaking the rules, only that 'it doesnt apply to them'.

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    Senior Member soupdragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivinLOS View Post
    Define abused.
    Well you know abused as in hundreds of people getting the visa with no intention of ever attending a class as was the case with the language Ed Visa.

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    Senior Member soupdragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivinLOS View Post
    Yes clearly it was.. I am not argueing against the rule breaking, I dont have any issue with anyone paying thier money for this visa.. The issue is who is 'issueing' them, not recieiving them, surely your not unab;le to see the difference ??
    If this was a new visa only being introduced when the Junta came to power then you have a point. If on the other hand it has been available for a long time and hasn't been clamped down on as it isn't being abused like the language Ed visa then I don't see the problem.

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    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soupdragon View Post
    Well you know abused as in hundreds of people getting the visa with no intention of ever attending a class as was the case with the language Ed Visa.
    I dont know about 100s, I have no way to know how many they sell, thats private info.. its one place operating.. But yes loads of folks who used to try other short term visa classes, TRs, EDs etc are signing up just for the visa, with no interest in the schooling.. Its the current talk of the local 'digital nomad' scene on how to just buy a 1 year easy stay so they can work incountry.

    What do you expect when they are specifically selling it that way..

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    Senior Member soupdragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivinLOS View Post
    What do you expect when they are specifically selling it that way..
    Who are they ? The school or some touts who have latched onto it ?

    At 33K Baht will this really be that appealing ?

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    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soupdragon View Post
    If this was a new visa only being introduced when the Junta came to power then you have a point. If on the other hand it has been available for a long time and hasn't been clamped down on as it isn't being abused like the language Ed visa then I don't see the problem.
    Its just this year.. That ED visas have been bundled..

    Before that no visa but the martial arts training has been there previously as a gym since I think at least 1 year before.. the evolution from gym to 'military police' giving out visas is brand new. And the common knowledge that 'you wont have any problems because its the military handing them out' unlike the EDs which are being messed about, tested, every 90 days, now must get a 500b resident paper (taking one week) before your 90 day, refusal to convert other visa classes, etc etc etc.. They are CLEARLY making Thai language much much harder, while making military training with no attaendance easy.

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    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soupdragon View Post
    Who are they ? The school or some touts who have latched onto it ?

    At 33K Baht will this really be that appealing ?
    I was told I think 37k baht.. But then I heard it from digital nomads in a bar (many times starting 3 months ago and now 'common knowledge' to any of the visa runner types).. Maybe they over paid or got ripped off. Maybe its changed or got cheaper on volume with no one attending classes..

    The links above to the school itself emphasising as its first selling point "1. One year ED. visa service" as obvious as it could be

    COMBAT-RELATED SERVICES << Its the first line of the first info on the home page !!! Imagine a language school doing that !!

    The first time I saw that link was looking to show it in this thread.. I had just heard it word of mouth and told where to go to pay your money and get enrolled.. They then 'handle it all' for you. they even have contacts so you dont wait at immigration, its red carpet treatment walk in for and front of the queue..

    And yes.. it would be really appealing.. you think ?!?! People are paying 20 - 25 grand to have agents process retirement visas as the queues are so bad.. Now TR visas wont be issued locally any more what does flying back to the west cost ?? And 3 monthly visa runs.. And 60 day 1900b extensions.. The elite visa is 500k for 5 years.. This is 37 (or 33) x 5.. for retirees its maybe easier than having 800k in the bank for 3 months.. Or 400k for some.. Easier than going getting 6 months ED visas.. going to language lessons and 1900b extensions every 90 days, tests, being messed about..

    Deny it all you like.. the military are in chiang mai selling visas.. But because they are in charge its 'legal'..
    Last edited by LivinLOS; 30th October 2015 at 09:15.

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    Senior Member faultytowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivinLOS View Post
    Yes clearly it was.. I am not argueing against the rule breaking, I dont have any issue with anyone paying thier money for this visa.. The issue is who is 'issueing' them, not recieiving them, surely your not unab;le to see the difference ??

    The simple (and I would think obvious point here) is the military, who pushed the civilian government out for being allegedly corrupt, is simply taking over streams of corruption for thier own pockets. In plain sight and without even hiding it.. I said all along its only about who benefits, if the military benefit they dont mind. As they write the rules, they make it so they are not even technically breaking the rules, only that 'it doesnt apply to them'.
    I keep forgetting , same-same but different , abuses were OK as long as the "rule benders" (ex-pats/holidaymakers) benefited .

    The fact is that corruption has been a way of life in Thailand for ever , it was fine/ignored when previous governments did it but now it must be instantly eradicated because the military said they would fight it.

    It's also funny that the same people who ignored the previous corruption (because it suited their needs) are now very vocal when the military start enforcing laws (some ridiculous !) that have been on the statute books for years.

    There are laws and corruption ........ then there is Thailand.

  16. #16
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    When a majority chooses a government to implement rules for them.. they all bear the burden of that choice..

    When a minority group with power, use tank and guns to steal power and subjigate the will of the majority.. To then impose decades old, never enforced rules, that the population de facto didnt ask for..

    It is different.. like it or not..

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    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by faultytowers View Post
    I keep forgetting , same-same but different , abuses were OK as long as the "rule benders" (ex-pats/holidaymakers) benefited .

    The fact is that corruption has been a way of life in Thailand for ever , it was fine/ignored when previous governments did it but now it must be instantly eradicated because the military said they would fight it.

    It's also funny that the same people who ignored the previous corruption (because it suited their needs) are now very vocal when the military start enforcing laws (some ridiculous !) that have been on the statute books for years.

    There are laws and corruption ........ then there is Thailand.
    How is it so hard to understand when people steap power from the country with the main reason being to stop corruption and then they are being corrupt is an issue?
    LivinLOS likes this.

  18. #18
    Senior Member faultytowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivinLOS View Post
    When a majority chooses a government to implement rules for them.. they all bear the burden of that choice..

    When a minority group with power, use tank and guns to steal power and subjigate the will of the majority.. To then impose decades old, never enforced rules, that the population de facto didnt ask for..

    It is different.. like it or not..
    Yet they are still laws that previous governments kept on the statute books , the population don't ask for most laws but have to accept them.

  19. #19
    Senior Member faultytowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc26 View Post
    How is it so hard to understand when people steap power from the country with the main reason being to stop corruption and then they are being corrupt is an issue?
    I have never said that corruption isn't an issue , but I have pointed out that getting rid of it isn't going to happen instantly like some people seem too think.

    How much corruption is there in Afghanistan and Iraq 10 years after the West went in to sort out those countries , and the corruption there wasn't/isn't restricted to the local population.

  20. #20
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by faultytowers View Post
    I have never said that corruption isn't an issue , but I have pointed out that getting rid of it isn't going to happen instantly like some people seem too think.
    Its not that 'corruption exits' its that military, who stole power with the reasoning they had to clean up the systems, have now cleaned them up making themselves the ones to benefit from corruption. Kind of undermines the moral authority no ??

    How much corruption is there in Afghanistan and Iraq 10 years after the West went in to sort out those countries , and the corruption there wasn't/isn't restricted to the local population.
    FFS with the ME links.. And so we went to Iraq because of their bad bookkeeping ?? Strange I thought it was sold on weapons..

    And once again.. Yes shit happens in other places in the world.. places we dont live in, go to, are in any way relevant to our lives.

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