Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 94
Like Tree13Likes

Thread: Bad Decision Day

  1. #1
    Senior Member Dodger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    1,161

    Bad Decision Day

    I left my office yesterday afternoon about 3pm to go to an appointment in Nai Thon. Just up from my office for the last month or more they have been digging new roadside storm drains. These are about 3 foot across and about 3 foot deep, they dig them out, then pour concrete in the bottom, let it set, build shutters on the sides and pour concrete again embedding rebar, which sticks out about 6 inches after its set. Then finally top it all off with concrete and every 3 or so feet grills to let the rain water in and away. Every so often the mud sides collapse, so they redig this out and pile it on the side of the open storm drain, no other barrier or warnings.

    Not teaching you how to build your own storm drain, this information becomes relevant later in this story of woe.

    So whilst the road is still two cars wide it feels narrower because of the little piles of drying mud on each side and the sheer open three foot drops into the drains. These little mud piles dry out and then get slightly driven on by passing cars causing area's of dried mud and grit.

    Not an interesting fact, but one that also becomes relevant later on.

    As I was driving by these workings nearly to the end of them, I came around the corner to see an older Thai villager driving towards me on his scooter. He didn't seem to notice me for a slight moment and then when he did he went in to shock/panic mode, pulled over to his left of the road and slammed on his front brake, mistake as the bike started to slide under him on the dried mud (see told you they would come into play), he put his foot down and seemed to right the bike, by now I had passed him and had to look into my wing mirror to see the rest unfold.

    He righted the bike but then yanked on the front brake again, making the front wheel lock and start to again slide sideways, with that he let off the brake accelerated straight into the ditch/open storm drain. By now I'm 30 metres away from him and then went completely round the corner seeing no more. I could see in my rear view mirror a woman run across the road to assist him and then I went into my shite mode.

    'Keep going a little voice said, you'll only get loads of shouting Thais surrounding you, open up an opportunity for making a claim of some sort against you and those others can help him, drive on'

    20 yards further

    'What sort of excuse for a human are you, leaving another person possibly injured by the side of the road and not going to help, turn round'

    10 yards further

    ' Go back and help him and it will end up your fault and you did nothing to cause it, and anyway there is exposed rebar sticking up, he is probably stuck through the ribs by several pieces, not going to be pretty sight, you have no first aid skills to assist, drive on'

    40 yards further

    'You low life, fancy not helping that man, right that's it, I'm not talking to you schizophrenic twattler anymore'

    Carried on to Nai Thon feeling really bad, I should not have done that, I know I should have gone back and offered some help. I know we read on the forums how some times this goes against the farang, but from my own experiences these must be very few and far between and not as common as we are perhaps led to believe.
    Last edited by Dodger; 6th February 2014 at 19:23. Reason: crap grammer
    Custard should be a colour...cos I could then paint over the mess I've just made!!!

  2. #2
    Senior Member Dodger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    1,161
    So carried on working in Nai Thon and about 4.30pm get a call from the Major at Kamala Police Station, only senior policeman I know well and trust.

    'Bernie you must come to Kamala Police Station'

    'Why?'

    'Accident and bring Perada (Gee)'

    Oh shite, so got to go to the station, he has telephoned me personally as it is serious if he deals with it and he asked for Gee to come, this means very serious he needs her to translate between the differing parties.

    Twattler I knew I should have gone back, all my basic human instincts told me this was the right thing to do and now I feel shite, what a low life thing to do. I then wondered if not stopping was a big offence here, like a 'nearly hit and then run' offence??

    Should I tell them the truth, that yes I did see him enter the ditch and no I didn't stop and help? I never lie, I hate liars, but would it be wise to bend the truth and say I saw him skid but was then around the corner and out of sight? Sod it the truth is always best, go there, take your medicine, you deserve it for not stopping to help a fellow man!!
    Custard should be a colour...cos I could then paint over the mess I've just made!!!

  3. #3
    Senior Member Dodger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    1,161
    I'm about in Surin when my phone rings its Gee, she tells me we have got to go to Kamala Police Station, yes I know, I'm about to then confess my sins when she sayes............................

    The people she hired her car too had been in an accident and the Major asked for me to be there to assist in the negotiations between the parties and the insurance companies and translate everything to the hirers!!!!

    So to my reasons for why I posted this story.

    Forget the other Forums stories of never stopping and helping other individuals, you should simply do this as a decent human being. The chances of things going against you are fairly slim and the feeling of living with yourself, as I did after not helping, is simply shite and not worth it.

    Oh by the way this story may have a few more twists and turns to come yet, I'll add them if they unfold.
    WarProfiteer likes this.
    Custard should be a colour...cos I could then paint over the mess I've just made!!!

  4. #4
    Senior Member WarProfiteer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    2,031
    Well, I enjoyed the tale, Bernie. Life in Thailand, full of pitfalls, mis-steps, regrets which may or may not cost you anything, and the pervasive underlying danger of living in a place where things can go from fine to f*cked in a split second.

    Was enjoying a lovely 4 day motorcycle ride around the north about 10 days ago. Me with the she-wok on the back and a buddy who knows the Thai roads better than any farang I ever met. It's sunny but cool morning, we crest over a hill, then there's a truck in his lane at nearly a dead stop making an illegal U-turn. *Smack*

    I spent the next 2 days dealing with everything for my buddy who'd broken lots of important parts he'd have rather have not broken.

    The risk of the roads in Thailand is probably worse than I have ever seen anywhere. I've been in places (currently living and working in one) where the driving is far worse, far more chaotic, but for some reason in Thailand, just getting from point A to point B can instantly become a nightmare.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    2,238
    I would disagree there Dodge. Accidents involving you fair enough, stop and sort them out. Accidents that you see in your mirrors are not your business and, for me, you should keep on driving. If you had hit him, fine; stop and sort it out. If he's run off the road for whatever reason ( drunk, incompetent ) without any collision with you then none of your business.

    What, in all your experience in Thailand, has convinced you that you would get a fair shake in those circumstances? What's he going to say? 'I ran off the road because I'm a tit / a drunk / incapable of understanding that front brakes should not be used on mud' or 'the farang ran me off the road, pay me ( insert ludicrous amount ) baht' ??

  6. #6
    Senior Member Pablo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    4,268
    I agree with Steve on this one Bernie.

    Nothing "good" to come, with you returning to (his) crash site. You would likely be accused of some wrongdoing, if only as a face-saving measure.

    As stated, you saw a lady scurrying to assist the guy, through your mirror. So, it's not as if he was alone and helplessly laying in the road.

    You should just now concentrate on "nailing" those (rich) farangs, that rented/wrecked Gee's car! 555

  7. #7
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    14,153
    I am with Steve above too.. Stop and fight the fight if you caused it or even involved.. Stop and help if theres no one to assist and someone may be injured.. I would never drive off leaving someone without assistance..

    But some old codger falling off because he cant ride ?? When its nothing to do with me and he has help on site already in the form of other Thais ??

    It wouldnt be keeping me up at nights put it that way.

    As pablo says, simply as a way of not accepting his own blame it would be blame the farang. Hell you paid the last time someone rammed into you, enough is enough.

  8. #8
    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Vancouver BC
    Posts
    10,630
    but does anyone have actual personal experience of this happening, not just forum folklore?
    where a farang stops to help and gets blamed?

    i can see a situation if there is an accident between the farang and thai and the farang gets blamed

    it would be hard for me to see an accident and not want to help

  9. #9
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    14,153
    Quote Originally Posted by marc26 View Post
    but does anyone have actual personal experience of this happening, not just forum folklore?
    where a farang stops to help and gets blamed?
    Yes many..

    I was sat at the offshore bar.. There would be a crash every few day at that nanai junction.. Thai pulls out without looking, clobbers another and they both go down.. scrapes and scuffed knees.. Falang tourist stops, starts to help them up (we are watching from the inside of the bar) they get up.. glare at each other for a second, then start to commiserate.. Everyone is ok.. I and a couple of others tell the tourist to leave them to it.. He continues to play the good Samaritan.. We make it clear he shouldnt help and leave them to it and after a lot of pushing he finally gets on his bike and goes.. Within 20 seconds a cop rides up.. As soon as the farang isnt there to defend himself the guilty party starts on "farang this farang that" and the other one then agrees.. Its like they mutually decided easier to simply blame the other guy than accept any responsibility. He lad literally gone out of sigh 10 seconds before they are pointing down the road and pretending to be angry at him, if he stays it would have been pay up.

    I had an accident happen around me and they started to try to pin it on me.. But they instantly got back a strong defense and didnt push it. I think they could tell that wasnt going to be an easy score.

    They try it on.. If you wear it you carry it.. I think it comes down to the person, you need to not lose your rag, but also take no bullshit. Theres the strong "you did it" and theres the "poor little me" methods but both angling for the same. Not accepting responsibility is a huge part of the Thai psyche / face / thing.

    Hell Dodger had some old fogey drive into him, and paid their bills.. But then Dodgers Jai dee. I am less so.

  10. #10
    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Vancouver BC
    Posts
    10,630
    Quote Originally Posted by LivinLOS View Post
    Yes many..

    I was sat at the offshore bar.. There would be a crash every few day at that nanai junction.. Thai pulls out without looking, clobbers another and they both go down.. scrapes and scuffed knees.. Falang tourist stops, starts to help them up (we are watching from the inside of the bar) they get up.. glare at each other for a second, then start to commiserate.. Everyone is ok.. I and a couple of others tell the tourist to leave them to it.. He continues to play the good Samaritan.. We make it clear he shouldnt help and leave them to it and after a lot of pushing he finally gets on his bike and goes.. Within 20 seconds a cop rides up.. As soon as the farang isnt there to defend himself the guilty party starts on "farang this farang that" and the other one then agrees.. Its like they mutually decided easier to simply blame the other guy than accept any responsibility. He lad literally gone out of sigh 10 seconds before they are pointing down the road and pretending to be angry at him, if he stays it would have been pay up.

    I had an accident happen around me and they started to try to pin it on me.. But they instantly got back a strong defense and didnt push it. I think they could tell that wasnt going to be an easy score.

    They try it on.. If you wear it you carry it.. I think it comes down to the person, you need to not lose your rag, but also take no bullshit. Theres the strong "you did it" and theres the "poor little me" methods but both angling for the same. Not accepting responsibility is a huge part of the Thai psyche / face / thing.

    Hell Dodger had some old fogey drive into him, and paid their bills.. But then Dodgers Jai dee. I am less so.
    so you put up a story of them blaming a farang after he left

    and as i said, i am sure it happens when you are invovled in an accident but you didn't give me an example of it actually happening to a farang who was trying to help

  11. #11
    Senior Member sundancekid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,142
    Had kind of a similar experience going back some years.

    So, sitting in a taxi from Kamala to Patong amidst heavy rain. As the taxi was about to turn right onto Rat-U-Thit, he hit a motorbike that was going straight… Clearly the taxi driver’s fault. But… I was about to meet up with a girl in Tiger, so did not speak up. We exchanged some awkward glances, and he just drove off. Slowly at first as if to check my reaction. I did nothing like saying… hey, let’s check on that guy or girl back there in the ditch.

    In part perhaps because he was a local taxi driver that I’ve been using regularly, and still use. Still haunting me that I did not speak up at the time even years later. But made a calculation I guess that it was most likely not worth it. The Tiger girl wasn’t worth much either, by the way…

  12. #12
    Senior Member tnlawyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    2,651
    Quote Originally Posted by LivinLOS View Post
    Yes many..

    I was sat at the offshore bar.. There would be a crash every few day at that nanai junction.. Thai pulls out without looking, clobbers another and they both go down.. scrapes and scuffed knees.. Falang tourist stops, starts to help them up (we are watching from the inside of the bar) they get up.. glare at each other for a second, then start to commiserate.. Everyone is ok.. I and a couple of others tell the tourist to leave them to it.. He continues to play the good Samaritan.. We make it clear he shouldnt help and leave them to it and after a lot of pushing he finally gets on his bike and goes.. Within 20 seconds a cop rides up.. As soon as the farang isnt there to defend himself the guilty party starts on "farang this farang that" and the other one then agrees.. Its like they mutually decided easier to simply blame the other guy than accept any responsibility. He lad literally gone out of sigh 10 seconds before they are pointing down the road and pretending to be angry at him, if he stays it would have been pay up.

    I had an accident happen around me and they started to try to pin it on me.. But they instantly got back a strong defense and didnt push it. I think they could tell that wasnt going to be an easy score.

    They try it on.. If you wear it you carry it.. I think it comes down to the person, you need to not lose your rag, but also take no bullshit. Theres the strong "you did it" and theres the "poor little me" methods but both angling for the same. Not accepting responsibility is a huge part of the Thai psyche / face / thing.

    Hell Dodger had some old fogey drive into him, and paid their bills.. But then Dodgers Jai dee. I am less so.
    If something like this happened to me, I'd be on the first plane out of there and wouldn't come back. I've always been a good guest when visiting other countries and understand that visiting or living in another country means I have to put up with some minor inconveniences, but this kind of stuff would make me seriously consider spending my time and money elsewhere.

  13. #13
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    14,153
    Quote Originally Posted by marc26 View Post
    so you put up a story of them blaming a farang after he left

    and as i said, i am sure it happens when you are invovled in an accident but you didn't give me an example of it actually happening to a farang who was trying to help
    Well they tried it on me !!! Guy crashed around me with another.. Pretty big wipeout.. They started on to blame me but the pickup driver told them he had insurance which would pay them at the same time as I firmly made it known I was not his problem and left the scene.

    However his first instance was 'blame the farang' even tho I wasnt involved in the accident and not the cause of it.

  14. #14
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    14,153
    Quote Originally Posted by ub2yoo View Post
    Possibly, could be you are that kind of magnet or force it to happen ;-)
    I think being around patong and phuket definitely shows you a side that you might not get with more rural folks.

    That said in Phuket I think you could fight it, not listen to the jnr policeman and demand to see his superior down the station.. Where in the country if it goes against you, your stonewalled by a total lack of english and a system of patronage that trumps technical laws.

    I mean does no one remember what happened to Gees niece ?? Killed by a drunk Thai rider.. They haul the deputy mayor in on their side.. The police lose some evidence, threaten and freak out the witness, tried everything to throw the case.. You were there then Paulie, how does that fit with you "never heard anything in real life" situation.

  15. #15
    Senior Member soupdragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Bang Tao
    Posts
    2,367
    ^^^Another similar story. A friend driving home at night to a remote part of Phuket in the rain. Thai kid comes around the corner too fast wrong side of the road hits him, Thai kid dies. It's on a quiet back road with no one around but in court the boys family produce 11 witnesses. The judge doesn't even question what 11 people were doing on that back road at night in the rain. Found guilty and the amount he has to pay forces him to pack up and leave.

  16. #16
    Senior Member soupdragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Bang Tao
    Posts
    2,367
    I would say the key to Bernies story is the speed of the vehicles involved. I have driven that road many times and always in slow motion because of the number of blind corners with Thais coming round them on the wrong side. Add in the ditch and I would have been going dead slow.

    Just one detail doesn't add up. If you looking in your wing mirror, how could you see what was going on with the front wheel of his bike, all you would see would be the back of the bike, unless you saw the bike slide and guessed what happened.

  17. #17
    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Vancouver BC
    Posts
    10,630
    Quote Originally Posted by LivinLOS View Post
    Well they tried it on me !!! Guy crashed around me with another.. Pretty big wipeout.. They started on to blame me but the pickup driver told them he had insurance which would pay them at the same time as I firmly made it known I was not his problem and left the scene.

    However his first instance was 'blame the farang' even tho I wasnt involved in the accident and not the cause of it.
    again, none of those are you stopping to help and getting blamed
    one, the guy left the scene and they decided to blame the farang to get out of being responsible
    2nd, you were near the accident and wanted to blame you

    you didn't stop and get blamed

  18. #18
    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Vancouver BC
    Posts
    10,630
    Quote Originally Posted by LivinLOS View Post
    I think being around patong and phuket definitely shows you a side that you might not get with more rural folks.

    That said in Phuket I think you could fight it, not listen to the jnr policeman and demand to see his superior down the station.. Where in the country if it goes against you, your stonewalled by a total lack of english and a system of patronage that trumps technical laws.

    I mean does no one remember what happened to Gees niece ?? Killed by a drunk Thai rider.. They haul the deputy mayor in on their side.. The police lose some evidence, threaten and freak out the witness, tried everything to throw the case.. You were there then Paulie, how does that fit with you "never heard anything in real life" situation.
    i thought it was despicable what the police did, has been a big reason why i may not ever live in the country
    BUT....they didn't "blame the farang"
    it is different

  19. #19
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    14,153
    Quote Originally Posted by marc26 View Post
    2nd, you were near the accident and wanted to blame you

    you didn't stop and get blamed
    Thats exactly what started to happen.. Until I put a stop to it and basically drove away..

    I was riding, he overtook me wildly swinging out into the path of a pickup also overtaking.. They clipped and crashed around me missing me by inches only due to some lucky save..

    I stop, ask if they are OK (he had a missus also and they were grazed) and he starts to blame me (for his overtaking). I get off my bike, hes jumped up grazed and his missus is still on the floor, I wanted to help his missus up but felt it was a bit odd another bloke assisting his girl, even tho he didnt seem to show any inclination to assist her at all.. But he launches into it, saying how it was down to me.. When theres no possible way his overtaking and nearly wiping me out from behind could be down to me.

    At this point the pickup driver runs back and says its ok he has insurance and they can claim on him (even tho not really his fault IMO) at the same time I make it clear his problem and simply rode off without waiting to see how it progressed. Bee urgently whispered "Just go" and I did.

    Dont know how much clearer it could be without staying and being made to pay !!

    All that said, its simply how you handle yourself.. The reason Thais ride off and bus drivers flee the scene ?? Because they dont want to catch the blame. People are poor, damage tovehicles is something they might have savings wiped out over, theres other pressures we dont have. Its not some wild nasty conspiracy, its just a culture where fairness, right and wrong, logic and rules are a lot less clear.
    Last edited by LivinLOS; 7th February 2014 at 08:52.

  20. #20
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    14,153
    Quote Originally Posted by marc26 View Post
    i thought it was despicable what the police did, has been a big reason why i may not ever live in the country
    BUT....they didn't "blame the farang"
    it is different
    But they tried to cover up the death of a farang.. And make it not the Thai guys fault..

    Almost the same no ??

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •