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Thread: Interesting piece on Nana Plaza..

  1. #1
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Interesting piece on Nana Plaza..

    The Future of Nana Plaza

    Seems to know the numbers pretty well.. I suspect this is Dave writing it without a credit as it has Spellbound (his new management gig) prominently pushed and he and Stick were out the other night photoing, which could well be the source photos.
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    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
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    The rents are staggering
    But just goes to show you that these places aren't gojng to be around forever
    The land is too valuable and then you have the moral aspect of it

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    Senior Member Geespot's Avatar
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    How many times have we seen this story over the years. Stickman one of the most out of touch pundits in Bangkok

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    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geespot View Post
    How many times have we seen this story over the years. Stickman one of the most out of touch pundits in Bangkok
    I am pretty sure thats Dave the Rave the Gogo Guru guy.. Who is far from out of touch..

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    Senior Member Geespot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivinLOS View Post
    I am pretty sure thats Dave the Rave the Gogo Guru guy.. Who is far from out of touch..
    Ye fair point compared to Stickman but I dont see Nana going away anytime soon

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    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    But 750m for the land man..

    That kinda needs to generate 75m to the land owners a year for only a 10% return.. Not the entire industry income, but the actual rent payments.. Thats pretty insane..

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    Senior Member Geespot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivinLOS View Post
    But 750m for the land man..

    That kinda needs to generate 75m to the land owners a year for only a 10% return.. Not the entire industry income, but the actual rent payments.. Thats pretty insane..
    If its true? The bar industry in Thailand has massive exaggeration about what this and that costs and also bar owners boasting about how much they make per day / per month etc

    Stickman loves a low season story of how bad the bars are doing

  8. #8
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    If its true ?? Makes some sense..

    Bits of Patong got 200 mil a rai over 5 years ago.. It has to be 3 rai ?? So thats valuing soi 4 Sukhumvit land at only a fraction above Patong (down by Christines massage) land 5 years ago.

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    Senior Member Geespot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivinLOS View Post
    If its true ?? Makes some sense..

    Bits of Patong got 200 mil a rai over 5 years ago.. It has to be 3 rai ?? So thats valuing soi 4 Sukhumvit land at only a fraction above Patong (down by Christines massage) land 5 years ago.
    Most bar owners and some are owned by groups know how to do the maths, so if the rent was jacked up so much before why would they have bothered to resign? We shall see what happens with the bar lease renewals coming up

    The last time the master lease was up for grabs there was talk of knocking it down and building a hotel

    I'm in BKK right now and have to say Soi 4 was very quiet last night other than H2 which was going a great storm...........and who did I bump into?.............Eade in H2 at her cousins birthday night out.......small world

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    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    But the central point is, the land values have outpaced the ability of the bars to pay the price for the premium location..

    Its not so much a case of the bar owners doing the numbers, just that bangkok downtown there is now too expensive to make enough selling drinks and pussy to pay a real return.
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    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivinLOS View Post
    But the central point is, the land values have outpaced the ability of the bars to pay the price for the premium location..

    Its not so much a case of the bar owners doing the numbers, just that bangkok downtown there is now too expensive to make enough selling drinks and pussy to pay a real return.
    That was my point
    Not about how well the bars are doing, just that the land has/will become too valuable right in the middle of BKK

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    Senior Member Bacon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc26 View Post
    That was my point
    Not about how well the bars are doing, just that the land has/will become too valuable right in the middle of BKK
    Valuable to do what with though? A hotel would be subject to the same seasonality problems. Apartments might be a better option, but development costs would still be astronomical, and you'd end up with the same issue. Who's willing to cough up high rent in that area? It'll be far denser than the current bar complexes, but I still don't see the investors coughing up more or wanting to part with their land this early after having sunk so much in.
    ןooʇsɹɐq ʎɯ uo ʞɔɐq eɯ ʇnd esɐeןd sıɥʇ pɐeɹ uɐɔ noʎ ɟı

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    Senior Member Geespot's Avatar
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    Nana Plaza and the surrounding area is a huge draw. Without Nana most of the bars hotels and restaurants would be fucked. Nana area doesn't need another hotel to actually replace Nana.....it's a double negative. As for condos they are already hugely over supplied
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  14. #14
    Senior Member Bacon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geespot View Post
    Nana Plaza and the surrounding area is a huge draw. Without Nana most of the bars hotels and restaurants would be fucked. Nana area doesn't need another hotel to actually replace Nana.....it's a double negative. As for condos they are already hugely over supplied
    Exactly. The only other thing is office complexes. And those can be found all over Bangkok. Most don't necessarily reply on location to be successful.
    ןooʇsɹɐq ʎɯ uo ʞɔɐq eɯ ʇnd esɐeןd sıɥʇ pɐeɹ uɐɔ noʎ ɟı

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    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
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    No one has touched on the moral side of it
    Besides the Philippines, which is a shit hole, no other Asian country has a p4p area so out in the open, especially a foreigner dominated one.
    I think eventually Thailand will push to have those places a little less in your face

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    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Office space.. Look at the towers in the area.. The return on those with BKK sqm price would be a lot higher and probably lower risk also..

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    Senior Member tnlawyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc26 View Post
    No one has touched on the moral side of it
    Besides the Philippines, which is a shit hole, no other Asian country has a p4p area so out in the open, especially a foreigner dominated one.
    I think eventually Thailand will push to have those places a little less in your face
    I agree completely. If Thailand wants to take that next step, they're going to have to tamp down some of this stuff. Whether we like it or not, there are a lot more people who are uncomfortable with in your face prostitution than not, and countries like Thailand are going to address it at some point. I own some property in the DR, and that same discussion is going on there. If a country wants to attract more regular tourists and businesses, they have to clean up their act a bit.

    I've enjoyed many nights at NEP, but it isn't the highest and best use of that corner.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Geespot's Avatar
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    Yawn the morals bla bla bla p4p thai style massively beyond your wildest dreams outweighs compared to tourist p4p in Thailand and even then all that said there is Pattaya which isn't shrinking in any shape or form when it comes to the naughties

    And ps to the even most recent trained eye as you drive on literally any road on Thailand if u see shiny lights then guess what??????
    Last edited by Geespot; 2nd October 2014 at 00:58.
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  19. #19
    Senior Member kris-one's Avatar
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    But the thai style brothels and bars aren't in your face downtown Bangkok. Sort of behind closed doors, a few lights and a girl or two chilling outside. Not 6ft ladyboys hanging outside in a g string and bra trying to take your cock out.
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  20. #20
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kris-one View Post
    But the thai style brothels and bars aren't in your face downtown Bangkok. Sort of behind closed doors, a few lights and a girl or two chilling outside. Not 6ft ladyboys hanging outside in a g string and bra trying to take your cock out.
    For sure.. As most asian P4P is designed to cater to locals, and most locals dont want to advertise themselves going to P4P places..

    Theres some Thai language forums devoted to places around CNX, theres loads of them, new ones opening every week, closing etc.. And yet so often you could drive past and not even a hint from the outside.. Social media is a huge change for this as they can advertise their location, then whose working that day, and still keep the places location low key and their girls faces off. To see a well done use of that add mossahuespa on line.. Daily line ups, etc etc etc.. They have moved the browsing to digital.. Theres a bunch of these outside the city in villas and the like so you are able to arrive, park out of the way, some even have food and a bar, but totally shielded and not for a casual passer by to be aware of in any way.

    Again digital word of mouth having an effect on this.

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