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Thread: Visa Cancellations

  1. #1
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Visa Cancellations

    A very unwelcome development for those of us getting or being more established.

    FOREIGNERS QUIETLY HAVING VISAS WITHDRAWN IN THAILAND - Andrew Drummond

    VISA CANCELLATIONS HERALD POTENTIAL FREE FOR ALL


    The Thai Immigration police officers have been quietly cancelling visas of foreigners in the country who are involved in court actions.

    And in one case a foreigner was deported having to leave a series of properties behind despite being acquitted of a charge of assault against another of another foreigner.

    He claims police demanded first 500,000 baht to solve his problems. He refused.

    The new immigration ‘rules’ which do not appear to have been widely published allow a massive opportunity for abuse.

    In two known cases foreigners have had their immigration status removed after action was taken against them under the Computer Crimes Act.

    This leaves all foreigners totally vulnerable from pensioners to journalists; and foreigners who have invested in Thailand could lose everything they possess.

    The worst case so far discovered is of an Australian, Mr. A, who had settled in Thailand with his Thai wife and who ran a successful tourism business and also built several houses.

    He had an argument with his German neighbour which ended in a fight. The German claimed he had received a fractured rib but failed to produce an x-ray as proof.

    The Australian completely denied the charges but claims local police on Phuket demanded 500,000 baht to solve his problems or he would be deported. He believes the German paid police to take action against him.

    The case went to court and the Australian was found not guilty.

    But when he went to renew his visa after the military took over it was refused on the grounds he was a danger to public safety and he was deported having to leave all his property behind. He is currently trying to rectify the problem.

  2. #2
    Senior Member WarProfiteer's Avatar
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    It's like Phuket is that wayward retard cousin that just cant keep himself out of trouble at family gatherings...
    Last edited by WarProfiteer; 21st February 2015 at 17:36.
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    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Seems like country wide.. Tho the story later in the piece, about the police stealing 1.5 mil of property from the guy in Chalong, is kinda insane..

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    Quote Originally Posted by WarProfiteer View Post
    It's like Phuket is that wayward retard cousin that just keep himself out of trouble at family gatherings...
    C'mon man, some of us just don't like family...

    In all seriousness somebody said to me very early on when I started going to Thailand 'never bring more than you are prepared to walk away from' and it seems as true now as it was then. As much as I am anti-coup, this shit seems to have been around for a long while.

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    Oh, and not that Drummond has an axe to grind with Thailand and might be cherry picking his facts or anything...
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    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve@thaib View Post
    C'mon man, some of us just don't like family...

    In all seriousness somebody said to me very early on when I started going to Thailand 'never bring more than you are prepared to walk away from' and it seems as true now as it was then. As much as I am anti-coup, this shit seems to have been around for a long while.
    Yeah the rule change may be new government related but this risks have always been there..

    As someone who clearly feels 'home' here it isnt nice to read things that give others the right to make decisions over your ability to remain, without any appeal process or oversight. Just decisions on someones whim.

    The fact that PR and citizenship is closed to anyone that doesnt work in Thailand, is also galling.. Some people ask why would you get PR ?? All that cost and it doesnt give you anything.. If I had a shot at PR I would be all over it. Then anything in the future like this doesnt apply.

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    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
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    But it all goes back to the fact people choose to live in a country that won't give you status
    So can't really feel bad for anyone........made your bed and all that

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    Senior Member WarProfiteer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve@thaib View Post
    somebody said to me very early on when I started going to Thailand 'never bring more than you are prepared to walk away from' and it seems as true now as it was then.
    This should be near the top of the list of Axioms to live by in Thailand. I'd modify it a little tho and phrase it "never get too attached to anything here... be prepared to walk away from it all". Condo, a business, women, motorcycles, etc... have something if you want it, but know that at any point it might stop being yours. Just part of being here...
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivinLOS View Post
    Yeah the rule change may be new government related but this risks have always been there..

    As someone who clearly feels 'home' here it isnt nice to read things that give others the right to make decisions over your ability to remain, without any appeal process or oversight. Just decisions on someones whim.

    The fact that PR and citizenship is closed to anyone that doesnt work in Thailand, is also galling.. Some people ask why would you get PR ?? All that cost and it doesnt give you anything.. If I had a shot at PR I would be all over it. Then anything in the future like this doesnt apply.

    That's not quite correct LiL.
    I thought the qualifier was "pay tax in Thailand"

    But some don't believe in "collectivism" - including many Thais.
    Sipping from the Fountain of Youth that is Thailand.

  10. #10
    Super Moderator LivinLOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evilbaz View Post
    That's not quite correct LiL.
    I thought the qualifier was "pay tax in Thailand"
    Ohh and yet we do.. Thailand is a country which primarily uses consumption taxes.. Its income tax is both poorly applied and quite low level.. Its main revenue collection comes in sales tax, heavily on imported goods.. What do you think makes a KTM cost so much ??

    So given farangs consume a far greater amount of imported goods, much more the kind of wines and high tax bracket items, they actually pay a far greater percentage per head than your average Thai. Eg given sales tax charged right through the supply chain is 7% on everything (thats not even counting the 30% on a lot of electronics, or the really high taxed items like non Thai cars) then someone with say a 200k a month spending pattern is paying an absolute minimum of 14k a month in consumption taxes..

    How many Thais would exceed that 14k a month in consumption and income taxes combined ?? That whole 'farangs get a free ride' is just poorly thought through argument.

    And thats without going out and buying a beemer or something.
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    Income tax ...

    Like all those lower middle class employed "yellow" Thais in Bangkok you seem to despise for kicking up about their share of the tax burden.
    Sipping from the Fountain of Youth that is Thailand.

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    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivinLOS View Post
    Ohh and yet we do.. Thailand is a country which primarily uses consumption taxes.. Its income tax is both poorly applied and quite low level.. Its main revenue collection comes in sales tax, heavily on imported goods.. What do you think makes a KTM cost so much ??

    So given farangs consume a far greater amount of imported goods, much more the kind of wines and high tax bracket items, they actually pay a far greater percentage per head than your average Thai. Eg given sales tax charged right through the supply chain is 7% on everything (thats not even counting the 30% on a lot of electronics, or the really high taxed items like non Thai cars) then someone with say a 200k a month spending pattern is paying an absolute minimum of 14k a month in consumption taxes..

    How many Thais would exceed that 14k a month in consumption and income taxes combined ?? That whole 'farangs get a free ride' is just poorly thought through argument.

    And thats without going out and buying a beemer or something.
    How many farangs you think there is vs well off Thais?
    Believe me......plenty of Thais are buying way more imported goods than the small % of farsngs that live in Thailand
    You must not spend any time in BKK and away from lower Suk

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    Senior Member Geespot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc26 View Post
    How many farangs you think there is vs well off Thais?
    Believe me......plenty of Thais are buying way more imported goods than the small % of farsngs that live in Thailand
    You must not spend any time in BKK and away from lower Suk
    Where then? All the major expensive malls are on Suk or near lower Suk

    My guess a very small % spend on imported goods and sure lots now eating western food but mostly from home grown produce. Just look in the malls they mostly eat in chains. Go villa market and you dont see alot of Thais in there buying produce

  14. #14
    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geespot View Post
    Where then? All the major expensive malls are on Suk or near lower Suk

    My guess a very small % spend on imported goods and sure lots now eating western food but mostly from home grown produce. Just look in the malls they mostly eat in chains. Go villa market and you dont see alot of Thais in there buying produce
    Go to Sathorn......all Thais spending plenty of money, living in condos as expensive or more expensive than anything in lower Suk
    Go to the high end grocery store in The Emproium, mostly Thais shopping there

    Go to the higher end malls over by Siam Square....I don't think I see one farang shopping there.....all Thais

    All of those products are imported.

    Look at any expensive car in Thailand.....95% driven by Thais

    Go to any of the high end buffets on the Riverside hotels or restaurants there like Angelini, 80-90% of the customers are Thai and paying plenty of VAT

    Then take in the fact I'd say 75% of farangs tend to spend on the lower end and not on imported goods
    Last edited by marc26; 23rd February 2015 at 00:19.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Thin White Duke's Avatar
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    My own experience is a major shift in Thai buying power.

    South. ...Phangnga. .....just amazing how the extended family have come along.

    Younger brother and sister in good jobs while just 15 years ago looking to big sis working Bangla.
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  16. #16
    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thin White Duke View Post
    My own experience is a major shift in Thai buying power.

    South. ...Phangnga. .....just amazing how the extended family have come along.

    Younger brother and sister in good jobs while just 15 years ago looking to big sis working Bangla.
    I've seen that in my wife's family as well but not what we are really talking about.

    The spending of the middle class and well off Thais dwarfs the relatively miniscule % of spending/consumption of farangs in country

  17. #17
    Senior Member Geespot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc26 View Post
    Go to Sathorn......all Thais spending plenty of money, living in condos as expensive or more expensive than anything in lower Suk
    Go to the high end grocery store in The Emproium, mostly Thais shopping there

    Go to the higher end malls over by Siam Square....I don't think I see one farang shopping there.....all Thais

    All of those products are imported.

    Look at any expensive car in Thailand.....95% driven by Thais

    Go to any of the high end buffets on the Riverside hotels or restaurants there like Angelini, 80-90% of the customers are Thai and paying plenty of VAT

    Then take in the fact I'd say 75% of farangs tend to spend on the lower end and not on imported goods
    Youre experience seems to be a lot different from mines and I've been about BKK hi so plenty over 3 years

    The income tax figures I would like to see what they look like for 2014 because previous people paying tax on 30k a month or above was in the low single digit % and that reveals who is earning what

  18. #18
    Senior Member Geespot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc26 View Post
    I've seen that in my wife's family as well but not what we are really talking about.

    The spending of the middle class and well off Thais dwarfs the relatively miniscule % of spending/consumption of farangs in country
    How may farangs are in Thailand at any given point in time? Resident or tourist. What are they spending? I dont know and doubt many do..........so the whole thing just becomes objective on how much or how little experience you have

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    Senior Member Geespot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivinLOS View Post
    Ohh and yet we do.. Thailand is a country which primarily uses consumption taxes.. Its income tax is both poorly applied and quite low level.. Its main revenue collection comes in sales tax, heavily on imported goods.. What do you think makes a KTM cost so much ??

    So given farangs consume a far greater amount of imported goods, much more the kind of wines and high tax bracket items, they actually pay a far greater percentage per head than your average Thai. Eg given sales tax charged right through the supply chain is 7% on everything (thats not even counting the 30% on a lot of electronics, or the really high taxed items like non Thai cars) then someone with say a 200k a month spending pattern is paying an absolute minimum of 14k a month in consumption taxes..

    How many Thais would exceed that 14k a month in consumption and income taxes combined ?? That whole 'farangs get a free ride' is just poorly thought through argument.

    And thats without going out and buying a beemer or something.
    Just guessing here but when referring to tax isnt it income tax with proof of a tax return

    Im pretty certain indirect taxation wouldnt apply and much harder to verify unless you are a business making VAT returns

  20. #20
    Senior Member marc26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geespot View Post
    Youre experience seems to be a lot different from mines and I've been about BKK hi so plenty over 3 years

    t
    Just what I see
    Anywhere outside of lower Suk is dominated by Thais by a very wide margin.
    Even in Hua Hin.....in the nice mall, all Thais
    That is all consumption tax being applied

    How much would one imported car wipe out the consumption tax of how many farangs?

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